druidry and drugs

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Heddwen
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Heddwen » 12 Feb 2015, 20:37

Having experienced psychotic episodes myself in the past (non chemical induced), I can assure you that in my experience it was totally different from the only time that I have taken mushrooms. I was ill and was treated with the correct medication to restore 'normality', whatever that is. The whole experience was negative mainly, aLthough there were a few peaks of elation. I know that its possible for people to have bad trips as well, so I'm not sure how the two experiences measure up.

As for the ovate course, well its certainly special :wink: and I , too found it to be powerful in places. I have to be very careful with how deeply that I go into things, I look after my mental wellbeing and health these days. I can't afford to go into mushrooms or any other drug, so that's why I was asking how you managed to achieve the trance state. I've had some experiences with ecstatic dance (5 rhythms), drumming and guided journeys. I also experienced a 'sound orchestra' on the druid shaman retreat last year which sent me into a mild trance state too. Interesting that some shamans see a mental health breakdown as a spiritual episode/break through because my spiritual experiences were more profound before I became ill...or maybe it was the illness talking! Anyway, its 4 years on and I have started to have some spiritual 'moments' again. So, I'm pleased about that. :)

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Green Raven
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Green Raven » 12 Feb 2015, 21:23

I guess we agree to disagree
Yes indeed, :shake: and thank you for a most invigorating and informative conversation on the subject. It is so important for friends to feel free to challenge each other's opinions. I am sure that there is much that we do agree on.

Best wishes,
Jon
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Hennie
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Hennie » 13 Feb 2015, 11:20

There seems to be this misunderstanding that incidental drug-use can cause chronic psychotic diseases. Though today psychiatrists think that drugs only quicken the offset of these diseases. So at age 18 there is a greater cohort drug users under people who start to hallucinate. At age 25 there are less drug user under the onset of psychotic disease. From age 28 on the percentages of psychotic users and non-users is the same as the general population. Again : it seems that the use of drugs only speeds up the offset of chronic psychotic diseases and do not cause them.

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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Welsh Mythology » 13 Feb 2015, 22:31

Straight to the core of things it seemed.
I think this is useful. In the limited terms of Western psychology (as much a victim of the Victorian schoolmaster as the rest of the "enlightened disciplines"), Jung observed, as did others, that the unconscious tends towards consolidation and resolution whenever possible. Symbols arising from the unconscious can be seen as attempts (by no means always successful) to harmonise otherwise opposing or incompatible aspects of experience. The horned figure resolves the conflicting aspects of civility and wildness that humans face in themselves; the talking, decapitated head resolves the conflicting aspects of death and memory as the deceased live on in our thoughts.

Where the unconscious tends towards unification, the more conscious mind gravitates towards separation, the perception of differences and contrasts that we utilise in objectivity and reasoning. In the most superficial (victorian) terms, psychoactives tend to bring more awareness to these unconscious processes where distinctions collapse and resolve, so an individual can witnesses the dissolution of apparent differences into greater wholes.

By amplifying or drawing attention to this natural tendency of the unconscious, psychoactives can cause a collapsing of previously fixed notions, distinctions, objectifications, into the "core of things". Many teacher plant traditions in North and South America honour elements such as fire and water as expressions of fundamentals, the greater wholes that the "10,000 things" arise from and return to. These core elements can further aid in the collapsing of differences into these simple, honest essences, as their gravity draws us into simpler wholes and away from scattered distinctions. They can be guides, lights on the path during the inevitable periods of difficulty that will arise.

Problems occur when the collapsing differences get stuck for whatever reason, hard edges jumble together and block the natural inclination of the unconscious towards resolution. The question that needs addressing by anyone seeking to enter that process is what to do when the collapsing differences do get stuck and don't resolve harmoniously, bringing with it the jarring sense of disconnectedness, fear and paranoia. To what whole essences can they turn to heal the dislocation? The Earth and natural living beings are very often a perfect remedy for this reason. But most people without recourse to such things will just bare it out until the effects ware off. If you're not so lucky it could leave a snarl of dislocation deep in the soul. This is where the coherence and stability of older traditions can come into their own.

As I've already said, entering into this situation with a set of preconceptions, those calcified conceptual boxes, will only obscure what the teacher plants are doing. It only hinders the inherent gravitational pull towards a collapsing of such distinctions and contrasts. One preconception that most people in the West have inherited from those Victorian scholmasters is the subject/object distinction, often the most difficult to collapse. This is usually expressed as an assumption that experience and thought is located and restricted to a brain, but maybe keave that one for the Skeptical Druids. As far as I know the traditions that practice ceremonial use of teacher plants don't get tangled up in that one, but its probably best to let them speak for themselves (visit jungle / desert). Regardless, I believe that would be one conceptual box to try and jettison while sitting down by the fire.

I qualify that with an acknowledgment that its a very limited description. I still believe this subject is far greater than our current ability to make meaningful from within the limitations of a computer screen. But hey, maybe someone will prove me wrong. :o
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby MountainGnome » 18 Feb 2015, 08:13

As I've already said, entering into this situation with a set of preconceptions, those calcified conceptual boxes, will only obscure what the teacher plants are doing. It only hinders the inherent gravitational pull towards a collapsing of such distinctions and contrasts. One preconception that most people in the West have inherited from those Victorian scholmasters is the subject/object distinction, often the most difficult to collapse.
One of the most difficult to collapse, but also the most important one to collapse in order to understand the true nature of magic and how one "create's" one's own reality. :)

The way I see this, this is where real shamanism/wizardry/etc. is born. :)

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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Hedgeapple » 19 Feb 2015, 02:23

For me, participating in a Peyote Sit Up overseen by a Roadman of the Native American Church was a completely positive experience. The Half-moon ceremony was formal, in a safe and controlled environment, and gave me a full night (dusk to dawn) to meditate on the concerns I had at that time. Did it provide me a spiritual insight that wasn't already waiting to emerge? Probably not. Would I do it again? Yes.

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Fil.F.
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Fil.F. » 26 Feb 2015, 06:08

Today the society it's so very junk!!! No other society on this world had consumed so much drougs.
And for become this situation so bad our food are mixed with them... If you are an adolescent
and use some ilicit droug they destroy your future forever, if you are against the drougs they
will kill you...this society it's a...oh holy crap.

The economy of the globe stay resumed in "crack" & "cocaine". The good faith of the governments
is over...all presidents around the world are mere borderlines...crazy.

But came to Brazil it's here the paradise of it...is the oficial economy of the continent ^^
So please do not use drougs casually...

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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby MountainGnome » 26 Feb 2015, 09:58

If you are an adolescent and use some ilicit droug they destroy your future forever, if you are against the drougs they
will kill you...this society it's a...oh holy crap.
I wish you would have told me this 10 years or so ago. My life has been destroyed all this time and I didn't even realize it. :-(

But it's still better than being killed I suppose.... :shrug:

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DJ Droood
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby DJ Droood » 26 Feb 2015, 12:57

Is there a difference between natural & manufactured drugs - e.g. mushrooms, cannabis and coca leaf against lsd, genetically modded skunk and cocaine?
What is this "genetically modded skunk" I keep seeing referenced? Is this a British thing, or the Twitter Age version of Reefer Madness drug education, or what? Certainly there is a lot of selective breeding done in marijuana growing, and strains have become more powerful, and with various qualities people find desirable (taste, auto flowering, shorter growing times, etc), but I've never seen or heard of "genetically modded skunk" (a strain of marijuana) before, and a quick google search doesn't seem to indicate it is a thing. Certainly, MJ has become more powerful since your parents smoked it and listened to King Crimson, but the upshot of that is people need to vaporize much less to get the same effect....less physically impactful and cheaper for the consumer, as you have to purchase less....harm reduction strategy, if you will...not as effective has Nancy Reagan and Wesleyan abstinence strategies, to be sure...
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DaRC
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby DaRC » 26 Feb 2015, 13:07

The genetic mod' thing is (I think) a journalistic view of selectively bred - in the same way that humans have selectively bred traits in a number of plants and animals.
but the upshot of that is people need to vaporize much less to get the same effect....less physically impactful and cheaper for the consumer,
This is the fundamental point - they've focused on increasing the THC content (which gives the high) without also increasing the CBD content (which balances the negative effects of the THC).
Also people aren't smoking any less - it just has a higher impact.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/health-31480234
However, I'm told, that these super-powerful MJ strains take too long to grow and that the common speed-grow plants don't have this additional strength.
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most sweet the sight of the sun;
good is health if one can but keep it,
and to live a life without shame. (Havamal 68)
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby DJ Droood » 26 Feb 2015, 14:16

Maybe the BBC can ask the genetic scientists to work on the stink gene next....many people haven't discovered vaporizers yet and continue to annoy their neighbours and attract the attention of police and anabaptists with the obnoxious stench.
Also people aren't smoking any less - it just has a higher impact
:Shakes head sadly: When will "people" ever learn....
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Green Raven » 26 Feb 2015, 17:09

The genetic mod' thing is (I think) a journalistic view of selectively bred - in the same way that humans have selectively bred traits in a number of plants and animals.
Yup, selectively bred hybrid of C. sativa and C. indica. If it were genetically modified, someone would hold the patent and be demanding their cut. Rather like the grains that traditional farmers are being pressured to grow across the African continent, instead of their traditional varieties which, though needing a breeding tweak from a cultivator in the normal way, are already used to the local climate, pests, bacteria, etc, etc, (without having to be dosed to the Nth degree with ruinously expensive bought in patent formulas).

Does anyone know if ‘skunk’ is an infertile F1 hybrid – needing newly purchased seed each time – or can be grown from the preceding crop’s seeds? It’s the sort of pedantic detail that bothers us ex-hayseeds :) .
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DJ Droood
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby DJ Droood » 26 Feb 2015, 18:33

In my neck of the woods, "skunk" is just generic ditch weed...The boutique growers and seed sellers have the fancy names and phenotypes mapped out and stuff.
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Green Raven » 26 Feb 2015, 22:03

In my neck of the woods, "skunk" is just generic ditch weed...The boutique growers and seed sellers have the fancy names and phenotypes mapped out and stuff.
Thanks, I had a flit around t'interweb earlier and it seemed that there was an original, bred in the '70s and containing c15% THC, and now there are many, bred using the same principals but not from the original variety. Lots of vendors selling seeds but no info on whether these are F1 hybrids degenerating into inferior strains or simply sterile if brought to seed. I'm intrigued as it would suggest that there is a tendancy towards a small number of 'original source' breeders rather than the popular image of a myriad of small-scale 'grow-your-own'ers crossing to produce their preferred qualities. A 'globalisation' of supply, hmm? Very uncool. Just wondered if anyone knew.
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DJ Droood
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby DJ Droood » 26 Feb 2015, 23:05

In my neck of the woods, "skunk" is just generic ditch weed...The boutique growers and seed sellers have the fancy names and phenotypes mapped out and stuff.
Thanks, I had a flit around t'interweb earlier and it seemed that there was an original, bred in the '70s and containing c15% THC, and now there are many, bred using the same principals but not from the original variety. Lots of vendors selling seeds but no info on whether these are F1 hybrids degenerating into inferior strains or simply sterile if brought to seed. I'm intrigued as it would suggest that there is a tendancy towards a small number of 'original source' breeders rather than the popular image of a myriad of small-scale 'grow-your-own'ers crossing to produce their preferred qualities. A 'globalisation' of supply, hmm? Very uncool. Just wondered if anyone knew.

It is all marketing, imo. Fancy names X Fancy names from such and such Cup Winner. The seed side of the business is one of the few legal components in many countries, so you can see capitalism at work....hype, jacked-up prices and smoke and mirrors. The same can be seen in the other legal component...hydroponic growing equipment. While I morally and ethically support legalization of cannabis, I fear legalization and commercialization won't be the boon supporters think it will be. The black market has kept supplies plentiful and prices stable for decades...the human cost of law enforcement has been horrendous, of course, with lives ruined by prosecutions, so I suppose legalization is the only sane option. I like the new Washington DC approach of being able to grow up to three plants for personal use...that keeps BIG MJ out of it, to a a degree, but eventually governments will tweak to the lost tax revenues, so it won't stand and it will go full-bore corporate. Being able to grow small amounts for personal use is the way to go. I don't think North Americans have the emotional maturity to go as far as the Dutch yet (where it is still illegal,apparently, yet coffee shops are allowed to operate)...maybe another decade.

As for the spiritual component, I have absolutely no personal experience, of course, but I am told by a friend of a friend that germinating a seed, nursing it through the different life cycle stages to maturity, sacrificing the lady and using the harvest for medication and as a meditation tool can be a profound experience.

I think most polls now show that the majority of people are too sophisticated to be fooled by the "Reefer Madness" disinformation that is still presented by pharmaceutical companies (why give up pill profits?) and right-wing political groups (why give up tools of suppression?) and religious groups (god is the only high you need). We are almost at a place of reason regarding cannabis, but not quite yet.
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Green Raven » 27 Feb 2015, 13:32


It is all marketing, imo. Fancy names X Fancy names from such and such Cup Winner. The seed side of the business is one of the few legal components in many countries, so you can see capitalism at work....hype, jacked-up prices and smoke and mirrors.

As for the spiritual component, I have absolutely no personal experience, of course, but I am told by a friend of a friend that germinating a seed, nursing it through the different life cycle stages to maturity, sacrificing the lady and using the harvest for medication and as a meditation tool can be a profound experience.
Agreed. Hype and bu11s41t baffling brains. Rather like trying to buy basic house cleaning chemicals these days. And yes, the takeover of the market by governments and big business will just transfer the corruption to the state machinery. I often muse on governments not liking mafias because they form genuine competition. Still, self-serving ‘representatives' are generally better than total breakdown. Does anyone out there have a barely-known casual aquaintance who actually grows from their own harvested seed without degeneration of the desired product?

D'accord, cultivation of crops can be a deeply spiritual experience, especially if you have to prepare a growing base from scratch. My first vegetable garden was solid yellow clay when I first removed the turf and the eating of my first crops outshone anything from pharmacopeia. A true communion with the Ancestors and the Neolithic spiritual Realms.
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DJ Droood
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby DJ Droood » 27 Feb 2015, 15:02

Does anyone out there have a barely-known casual aquaintance who actually grows from their own harvested seed without degeneration of the desired product?

A person I read about in the news said that because authorities will more or less ignore under 5 plants, but come down on you like you were ISIL for 6+ plants, commercial feminized seeds were the way to go....you don't have to plant and nurture 6 in the hopes of getting 3 ladies. Femed seeds are expensive, but convenient....of course, a "mother" plant can be cloned from cuttings, eliminating the need for letting your crop go seedy.
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Green Raven » 28 Feb 2015, 12:05

A person I read about in the news said...
Ah, yes. Cuttings and, also, graftings. A little exposed to the perils of a reduced gene pool but the whole business seems a little divorced from the natural cycle. At least that route takes the supply away from the monopolists. Thank you for your inspired illumination.
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Very green, the mountain beautiful, and beautiful the earth?”
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby Fil.F. » 12 Mar 2015, 02:41

some persons cultivate at home the mushroom "agaricus" to reduce danes to the brain. It's true, but please don't travel
by land around your country...I create and a proof the mushroom by a special magic manner. Follows how to create atoxic
mushroom (with ring at the base), materials:

- nickel coins
- brass coins
- sodium bicarbonate
- water
- little porcelain plate
- plant and vase of preference
- incense

Immerse the nickel and brass coins on the solution of water and sodium bicarbonate. After various days the water turn to a mineral blue collor.
Take the nickel coins and polish them, until it be bright and clean again, reject the brass coins. Put the polished nickel coins on the plate and
offer this to nature spirits at the base of the plant of your preference, over the earth of the vase. Burn there an incense and keep that by a little 3 days and
you will find mushrooms there. I repeat this for various time with the same results. These mushrroms it's good to consume with milk. :)

Only cosume it if the mushrroms have a visible ring in relief at the base.

I still not have try it with gold and silver coins...may be the product a muscaria mushroom?

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DJ Droood
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Re: druidry and drugs

Postby DJ Droood » 31 May 2015, 14:20

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