Imposts in the celtic society

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Fil.F.
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Imposts in the celtic society

Postby Fil.F. » 20 Jul 2015, 16:30

Someone know something more about impost in the celtic society ?

The persons whom I meet and keep the practice of rituals in group shows an ideology or philosophic posture against the
payment of imposts, and they believe the ancient celts were also against it. While story tales like "Robin hood" shows
the exploration of the people by a king and the revolt of them. If the payment of imposts are a terrible fact imagine to have must
to pay to another people through a war's conquest.

The payment of imposts perhaps was part of the four traditional rituals, a tribute payed to the king by the use of the land over
the productivity of the harvestings. The book named "The Religion of the Ancient Celts" By J. A. MacCulloch [1911] says something more
which about distribution of money after a determined ceremony, what can be understood like a restitution.

It's really that the punishment of the infractors of that law was severally, if the debt was cumulated. A judgement of the person was realized
and the person must have to pay your recompense for stay free. Who do not pay could be banished or sacrificed, so the presence on the ritual
was obligatory. The human sacrifices inside the wicker man was a punishment determined by law after a judgement. Before the sacrifice the victim
could be killed by serpent's poison. The wicker man there it's a nature figure similarlly to the roman "aerarium".

Today is an offense to the human rights when I saw groups burning that human figure, believing that the gods need of that, or the nature and the universe will recovery
the Cosmos. I guess that the practice must be prohibited or allerted about the gravity of all that, for the reason that nobody is a juif and nor even the juif have
the rights to make it in some countries around the world without the public judgement.

etc ...

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Green Raven
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Re: Imposts in the celtic society

Postby Green Raven » 20 Jul 2015, 18:33

Good afternoon, Fil.F,

Your expeditions in early medieval texts often have intrigued me but I am a little confused as to your musings today.

I am familiar with the references to the wicker colossus by Julius Caesar,

“Some tribes have colossal images made of wickerwork, the limbs of which they fill with living men; they are then set on fire, and the victims burnt to death. They think that the gods prefer the execution of men taken in the act of theft or brigandage, or guilty of some offence; but when they run short of criminals, they do not hesitate to make up with innocent men.” De Bello Gallico, VI, 16

and Strabo,

“…or having devised a colossus of straw and wood, throw into the colossus cattle and wild animals of all sorts and human beings, and then make a burnt offering of the whole thing.” Geographies IV, 198, 5

And I have searched the fragments of Posidonus, such as have survived, and yet I can find no reference to the incumbents of the wicker colossus being poisoned with snake venom before immolation.

It has always been my supposition that the volume and earnestness of the screams of the dying were thought to have been necessary to attract the attention of the gods above and below, as most authorities (Dr Ned Kelly, Ole Nielssen, Prof Sir B Cunliffe, Dr A Ross, Dr I.E West, etc.) have commented upon the unnecessary extreme and gratuitous violence, or the remains of ergot-laced bread administered for a horrible pre-death experience, inflicted on the ancient pickled remains found in peat bogs. Even the Lindow Man, who went voluntarily to plead for intercession against the Romans, had a rib broken before the fatal wounds. The mercy of snake venom would have spared the criminal from suffering, rather like the penitent heretic being strangled before the fires of the Inquisition consumed his or her mortal remains.

In today’s neo-paganism, the rite of the Wicker Man is associated with Beltane, the feast of purification that ushers in the transition to summer in May. It is a beautiful symbolic act to weave a figure from withies, fill it with straw and then add token items that symbolise what is wrong with the world today (party political manifestos and carvings of smartphones made the cut this year) or written personal sorrows that one wishes to cast aside so that life can be lived without their burden. The addition of pine sap as nuggets or home-made pitch adds a cleansing perfume as the flames consume the evil and the smoke transitions all to the sky and air.
Today is an offense to the human rights when I saw groups burning that human figure, believing that the gods need of that, or the nature and the universe will recovery the Cosmos. I guess that the practice must be prohibited or allerted about the gravity of all that, for the reason that nobody is a juif and nor even the juif have the rights to make it in some countries around the world without the public judgement.
My other query is the use of the word ‘Juif’. Sitting here on a little island just off the coast of Europe, my immediate interpretation is that of the French term for a Jewish man. Surely you cannot mean that? The Wicker Man is not and never has never been a feature of the Jewish faith I can assure you.

I would be grateful for your clarification.

Peace and blessings,

Jon
(Green Raven)

P.s. Your deliberations, often on the same text or set of texts, are scattered all over the boards. Would you not find it easier to start a thread and then continue adding to it for a collection of related posts, much as 'treegod' and 'Erwin' have done?
“Listen, O little pig! are not the buds of thorns
Very green, the mountain beautiful, and beautiful the earth?”
- Myrddin Wyllt, Hoianau / Greetings (to a Pig)

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Fil.F.
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Re: Imposts in the celtic society

Postby Fil.F. » 21 Jul 2015, 06:17

Ok... let me see.

I understand your position, however the romans and the greeks historians could have distorced these practices to incriminate the druids.

And the word that I'm referred there not present relations with jews, was a time lapse for the word "judge". So sorry by the fact, if you are
worried with my posts over the forum board delete them, if you do get it, cause nor even I can do.

For me the practice is the same to show and exhibit a Nazi Swastica, not by the fact of the nazism which is inspirated on the roman
empire and germany traition of the celts. Just remember the celtic countries state at the second wolrd war... The wicker man in my point of
saw make apology to crimes against human beings, and in this modern society is a fact that can dispert some repudiation and be considered crime
or vandalism. Just this!!!

All fundamented religions walking over at this floor ... the rest is just the rest!

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Re: Imposts in the celtic society

Postby Green Raven » 21 Jul 2015, 10:22

Good morning Fil.F,

I understand – ‘juif’ is a typing error for ‘judge’.

And I have no problem believing that, two millennia ago, the Celts sacrificed people to their pantheon, overseen by the Druid social caste. No slurs by the authors of the classics necessary - hence the offering of my wonderings on the motivations of ancient peoples.

****

I was going to send a private message to discuss your studies of the 'Scholars' Primer' and others but you seemed to have turned the facility off. Really, I am not offended by the works. To clarify, I wondered whether starting your own thread and continuing to add to that thread might build up into a body of work and a progression through the 'Scholars' Primer' and others.

Are you using 'Google Translate' to bring your thoughts from Brazilian Portuguese to English? One of the downsides of a robot translator is that it translates literally, making approximations of specific words and ignoring grammatical structure, thus rendering the result unintelligible in part, which is unfortunate.

It would also be helpful, to inform our studies, that when an interesting or new snippet of information is released, a series of reliable sources could be quoted, as the assertions appear.

Peace and blessings,

Jon
“Listen, O little pig! are not the buds of thorns
Very green, the mountain beautiful, and beautiful the earth?”
- Myrddin Wyllt, Hoianau / Greetings (to a Pig)

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Fil.F.
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Re: Imposts in the celtic society

Postby Fil.F. » 22 Jul 2015, 14:21

Good morning,
If I’m stay using the Google Translator or not I can’t see crime on it. This error was an insight caused by the French book entitled “The Antiquite des juifs”, with the same subject on question. My laptop is without office editor and no grammatical correction was made. And I can explain why, just it was happen. Perhaps, because the relation between first historic human sacrifices in the Bible.
However one observation I am doing now: I do not establish no references between themes of this post and the “Scholars Prime”, and no connection with others topics. On the “Auracept” no evidence of the theme of human sacrifices is found, only script codes to “Nemed judgments”, or animal sacrifices. The offering to the gods in all Indo-European paganism books is referred as only the bull; there aren’t human offerings on Celtic classic texts.
About the discussion of the theme some archeologists defends that just exist little evidences of the practice of human sacrifices by the druids between Celts. The evidence which is found is localized over the British Isles territories.
The figure of the wicker man is appointed by Romans and Greeks with the clear intention to incriminate the celtic priests. And a relation by etymologies I did established, between this figure and the “Aesop” to the roman “Aerarium”. “Aesop” a slave that was turned free and became the enemy of kings and nations with famous depictions in the entire world as well his fables. The Jupiter Columns buildings on the territories of conquered people show details scenes of a giant destruction and at the base four heads representing the four parts of the day, a signal to advert about the religious obligations of city or village inhabitants and the care with it.

Just it.

"If we have in mind a posture favorable or in defense to these practices, others practices in the same sense like the Inquisition torture scenes or apology can be taken by christian priests or practicants. Only a question of equal rights" ...

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Re: Imposts in the celtic society

Postby Green Raven » 22 Jul 2015, 16:41

Hi,

No crime in using a robot translator, as a starting point. I often get myself started on lengthy Welsh texts with it and then hook out the dictionary and verb tables for fine tuning. And still get it wrong sometimes!

Ah yes, The Antiquities of the Jews, Flavius Josephus. A fascinating read. I suppose Josephus’ treacherous turn-coating was history’s gain :) . I remember watching a TV adaptation of the Masada siege starring Peter O’Toole, which was very evocative. The Romans’ siege ramp is still there and the defenders’ ‘snake path’ is one hell of a run of an early morning.

Yes, the bible is full of grisly goings-on and the Dagon/ Ba’al cults quite lurid. Abram/ Avraham/ Abraham/ and latterly Ibrahim was a Sumerian from Ur of the Chaldees (Kasdim), for the time being in modern day Iraq, and I suppose he brought his former cult with him before his desert revelations. Evidence of human sacrifice has been found in the tomb of Puabi by bludgeoning, throat cutting and possibly by poisoning (Leonard Wooley, Ur Excavations II, The Royal Cemetery, 1934).

You are right in that no archaeological trace of a ‘Wicker Man’ has ever been found but there are mysterious burnt mounds found next to sacred springs all over Britain and Ireland where intense fires were regularly made on mounds of stones (e.g. Laurie, T.C., Researching the Prehistory of Wensleydale, Swaledale and Teesdale, 2003). Arguments still rage as to whether these were for cooking, steam houses or more esoteric purposes, but the size of these heat-shattered mounds of local pebbles are quite extensive. I am always intrigued by Strabo’s phrasing, “throw into the colossus cattle and wild animals of all sorts and human beings, and then make a burnt offering of the whole thing.” (Geographies). It makes me wonder if the colossus was a hurdled silhouette on the ground, which would explain why no charcoaled leg stumps have ever been found. Boudicca impaled Roman women during her Londinium spree and pits with a single stake surrounded by human and animal bones have been found (e.g. Dr. S. O’Connor & R.Cubitt, Heslington YAT excavation, 2008). I have wondered whether there was a Lugh/ Lleu/ Lugos derivation as the Sun god’s symbol was the spear and there are many towns dedicated to him with names like ‘Loudon’ around Europe. London is usually translated as ‘the bridge across the river’ but Boudicca’s action might suggest a rededication and an alternative etymology. Can’t prove that of course. Anyway, the Britons and Gauls certainly sacrificed people in the U.K., Ireland and mainland Europe, even if the monkish scribes left it out of the histories.

I always thought that an aerarium was a Roman treasury, from Latin ‘aes’ meaning ‘money’? How is Aesop the Greek (name meaning unknown) related to that?

Anyway, I am looking forward to your research on the C8th Bretha Nemed (Judgments Concerning Privileged Persons) – first and last books.

Best wishes and brightest blessings
“Listen, O little pig! are not the buds of thorns
Very green, the mountain beautiful, and beautiful the earth?”
- Myrddin Wyllt, Hoianau / Greetings (to a Pig)

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Fil.F.
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Re: Imposts in the celtic society

Postby Fil.F. » 23 Jul 2015, 10:16

I always thought that an aerarium was a Roman treasury, from Latin ‘aes’ meaning ‘money’? How is Aesop the Greek (name meaning unknown) related to that?
Is related by his Roman name "Aesopus".

Thanks for your quotes.
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Aesopus
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Fil.F.
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to clarify and conclude...

Postby Fil.F. » 24 Jul 2015, 12:16

The mention's way of burial mounds you did can be interpreted as a local of human sacrifices and cannibalism; however these places were a local of funeral rites. Generally, the mounds contain human ashes and bones of men down in war or by natural death. These places stay in an eternal peace for the cult of the dead or faerie. The cooking area is the local were offering is made, by cooking or burning the animal meat, traditionally the wild boar. This animal was a religious icon and the sacrificial blood of the animal was an offering, attracting to the gods and banishing evil spirits. The properties of the blood revive the trees on forest, so is also carried and offered at the place of seasonal rites. Burial mounds are found in so many cultures around the world.

Searching for these places, a perfect depiction I find for what I call script codes to the "Nemed Judgments" from the "Scholars Prime", encountered at the page 101. However, this scene is from the norse myth with narratives on the "Völluspá", at awhile confirms my interpretation. Tho conclusion is that, the story of executions and ressurrections is so ancient from the story of Christ crucified by romans, as attest the poem. Perhaps the term "human sacrifice" causes so many nagative confusions, when compared with judgment execution or capital punishment. This fact came from the religious act for those juridical practices.

According to "Völluspá" the war between Aesirs and Vanir was triggered by Aesir's killing of the Völva Gullveig:

The first murder,
she remembers in the World,
was, when they on spear point
Gullveig pierced,
and in the holy
hall her burned.
Three times burned
the three times revived,
again and again;
but than she lives.


[img]
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by Lorenz Frohlich.

by Lorenz Frohlich.

By Lorenz Frohlich.
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After Mjodvitnir and drawing by Lorenz Frohlich.


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