National Register for and vetting of "faith leaders"

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malcolmb
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National Register for and vetting of "faith leaders"

Postby malcolmb » 13 Sep 2015, 14:05

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... plans.html

I am sure all in OBOD will wish to be aware of the above article in the Telegraph newspaper. While only a proposal in the UK at the moment, it clearly has ramifications for the whole Druid community. I would be most interested in your thoughts.
Peaceful Earth Grove: https://www.peacefulearthgrove.com/


My original "Druid Music" CDs (all proceeds to the charity "Pagan Aid":
https://lylemusic.bandcamp.com/

My original Celtic / Folk / Jazz music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/lylemusic
http://www.soundclick.com/malcolmbrown
http://www.youtube.com/user/LyleMusic

“So many Gods, so many creeds, so many paths that wind and wind. While just the art of being kind, is all the sad world needs.” Ella Wheeler Wilcox

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LoonyLuna
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Re: National Register for and vetting of "faith leaders"

Postby LoonyLuna » 13 Sep 2015, 20:06

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/ ... plans.html

I am sure all in OBOD will wish to be aware of the above article in the Telegraph newspaper. While only a proposal in the UK at the moment, it clearly has ramifications for the whole Druid community. I would be most interested in your thoughts.
It stinks of 1930s Germany. :x
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malcolmb
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Re: National Register for and vetting of "faith leaders"

Postby malcolmb » 13 Sep 2015, 20:41

I also posted this link on the BDO's Facebook page. Clearly not many Druids read the Telegraph! The reaction was what I might politely describe as "derisory"! :-)

But of course there is a very serious issue here. While it is highly possible that this proposal will never reach the final White Paper, the very fact that it has been considered is deeply worrying in relation to the separation of Religion and State. There are many areas where we come into contact with vulnerable people where vetting is essential. But the suggestion that any contact with any part of the Public Sector would require registration and vetting is in my view an issue that requires considerable deliberation. Would a Grove gathering on Public land require the Druid to be registered and vetted? Would all beliefs and faiths be required to register and be vetted if they had any contact with the Public Sector (how do you define "contact with the Public Sector?)? With the plethora of beliefs and faiths (even just within Druidry), how could civil servants even cope with such a workload? Exactly who would assess "Druid training"?

Frankly, this whole issue is fraught with worry.
Peaceful Earth Grove: https://www.peacefulearthgrove.com/


My original "Druid Music" CDs (all proceeds to the charity "Pagan Aid":
https://lylemusic.bandcamp.com/

My original Celtic / Folk / Jazz music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/lylemusic
http://www.soundclick.com/malcolmbrown
http://www.youtube.com/user/LyleMusic

“So many Gods, so many creeds, so many paths that wind and wind. While just the art of being kind, is all the sad world needs.” Ella Wheeler Wilcox

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LoonyLuna
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Re: National Register for and vetting of "faith leaders"

Postby LoonyLuna » 13 Sep 2015, 20:54

Exactly, you could define public contact as going outside your front door and being out in public.

The fact is the Tories seem hell bent on severely restricting our basic rights to a private life with their obsession with ever more surveillance and monitoring; not to mention our working rights, privatising anything and everything, and demonising and punishing the low paid and vulnerable.

The article itself focused on Muslims, which is clearly prejudicial, and showing that the threat of extremism is being used as an excuse to clamp down on everyone's freedoms, all in the name of "national security". For christs sake, Cameron has declared that the Labour Party is now a "threat to national security, the national economy and our families security", all because Jeremy Corbyn is now leader!

The only threat to national security, economic security and our families security is Cameron, Osbourne and his ilk!
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Green Raven
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Re: National Register for and vetting of "faith leaders"

Postby Green Raven » 13 Sep 2015, 21:04

This rather bizarrely raises the ‘what is a recognised religion?’ question again. It probably involves a five-yearly subscription fee, a little plastic card and a perfunctory test that fools no-one, as that solved the whole security/ wheel-clamper/ doorman problem (or not!), thereby providing HMG with another stealthy little tax income by a back door.

Like paedophiles and con-artists the world over, religious extremists are very devious when it comes to inveigling themselves into the trust of the young and vulnerable; filtration just leads to the sending of proxies and ‘groomers’. The only people impacted would be the open and honest.

I would prefer the French system wherein, by actively enforced law, all faiths are left outside the institution gates and remain a private concern. Having conversations with one’s children about prayers, hymns and the oh-so-casually-dropped beliefs of a teacher can become tedious.
“Listen, O little pig! are not the buds of thorns
Very green, the mountain beautiful, and beautiful the earth?”
- Myrddin Wyllt, Hoianau / Greetings (to a Pig)

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malcolmb
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Re: National Register for and vetting of "faith leaders"

Postby malcolmb » 14 Sep 2015, 10:52

Like all ideas floated as potential policy, it is short on detail and large on potential for paranoia. Defining what is a "religion" in the UK would itself test the most open-minded person! Apparently more than 390,000 people in the UK 2001 Census defined their religion as "Jedi Knight" making it the fourth largest religion in the UK! But on a more serious note, we do have to accept in the Druid and the wider Pagan community that our drive for acceptance as a recognised belief will have repercussions. We cannot cherry-pick what we want and what we do not want. When the Druid Network achieved recognition for Druidry as a religion, we placed ourselves in the public eye and thereby subject to scrutiny.

Rather like "Contact with the Public sector", of course Paganism is also a catch-all term. And even the term "Druidry" covers a very wide variation in belief. Even the simple question of who should represent Druidry in any discussion with Government is very difficult to answer and has the potential for discord. I am sure there are many who think they have the right and equally many who would dispute that right. Perhaps the time is approaching when we must seriously face and answer these questions.
Peaceful Earth Grove: https://www.peacefulearthgrove.com/


My original "Druid Music" CDs (all proceeds to the charity "Pagan Aid":
https://lylemusic.bandcamp.com/

My original Celtic / Folk / Jazz music at:
http://www.soundclick.com/lylemusic
http://www.soundclick.com/malcolmbrown
http://www.youtube.com/user/LyleMusic

“So many Gods, so many creeds, so many paths that wind and wind. While just the art of being kind, is all the sad world needs.” Ella Wheeler Wilcox

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Green Raven
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Re: National Register for and vetting of "faith leaders"

Postby Green Raven » 14 Sep 2015, 14:27

Perhaps the would-be law makers first need to ask ‘what is the state’s interest in religious organisation?’ as a concept. A badly worded law could either end up with only the largest denominations of the most widely subscribed faiths able to represent their faiths in prisons, hospitals and schools. Or, conversely, anyone with a hypothetical £500 could walk into a town hall, register themselves as a religious leader, have their DBS (formerly CRB) check and receive their I.D. card. This would be quite advantageous for some as it would be a step towards claiming some substantial tax exemptions.

It is almost impossible to disprove a person’s bona fides as minimum congregations could be stated as a christian “two or three gathered in My name” or a Talmudic minyan (10 men over the age of 13). I’m sure other faiths have their minimums for a religious gathering – I have heard three to thirteen from different Wiccans.

Maybe only those licensed to carry out marriages would qualify, although the humanist and atheist ‘authorised persons’ would protest strongly about being lumped in with religious believers. For that role one only has to be “appointed by two trustees or members of the governing body of the (authorised) building” - “A Guide for Authorised Persons”, General Register Office, 2012, updated: February 2015.
“Listen, O little pig! are not the buds of thorns
Very green, the mountain beautiful, and beautiful the earth?”
- Myrddin Wyllt, Hoianau / Greetings (to a Pig)


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