Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

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Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby MountainGnome » 06 May 2015, 08:00

I was reading a book about the symbolism of Druidism and related ancient religions/spiritual practices, published in 1849, called Étude sur le symbolisme druidique. It's written by Th. Prosper Le Blanc and can be found for free on Google books here.

This book explains that in the Gaulish religion (of ancient Gaul, modern-day France), there was a "supreme god" whose name has been lost to time. This supreme deity was represented by a trinity of three deities, each representing a different aspect of this god: "Teut," "Bal the black," and "Kor."

In the pages centering on page 86 of this book (94 of the PDF), it's explained that the supreme god (out of which all the other gods arise) has a home in the North and comes out of that part of the sky and moves toward the West. (Note that when the Sun is the most towards the North, this is the time of the summer solstice and the warmest part of the month in the Northern Hemisphere.)

When the Sun goes into the West, it's said to enter the realm of a goddess of chaos. Also, the metaphysical supreme god incarnates into a human form known as Hu, Héus or Hésus.


So just to recap, we have an ancient Celtic god, which is both a unity and trinity at the same time (like the doctrine of the Trinity in Christianity), and when this god incarnates into a human form, he is sometimes known as Hésus (not only eerily similar to the name "Jesus" but also pronounced exactly as the name Jesus is in Spanish today).

For those of you unfamiliar with Christian doctrine, Jesus is also said to be God in human form. Furthermore, the name Héus appears etymologically related to Zeus, which in turn is the origin of the word "Deus," which is God in Latin, and also Dieu (God in French), Dios (God in Spanish), etc. There appears to be a common origin here.

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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby Green Raven » 06 May 2015, 19:21

This would be Esus, one of the senior triumvirate of Teutates, Taranis and Esus? For me, the best way to explore a god from another tradition is to examine the known character traits. Esus is usually described as ‘The Woodsman’ as he has been found on altars grasping an axe, next to triple cranes (Garanus Treis) and with a tri-horned bull (Taruos Trigaranos). He is known as Cernunnos as well (Pillar of the Boatmen). There is also a panel on the Gundestrup Cauldron (Thracian workmanship) showing the antler-headed god grasping two totemic symbols. I have always taken this to be a depiction of the above triumvirate – Esus, Lord of the Woods, holding a torc, symbol of Teutates, Lord of the Tribes, and in the other hand the ram-headed serpent, totem of Taranis, the Thunder God and giver of Fertility. The same symbols as on the Pillar of the Boatmen (Gallo-Roman). He received sacrifice of a person tied to a tree whose throat was then cut - the blood pouring on the roots. It is widely accepted that the triple death of the Lindow Man included an Esus/Hesus dedication as the druid was transitioned to put his plea for intervention against the invading Romans.

[The ram-headed serpent is phallic and usually shown flying in a serpentine zigzag motion, representing lightning – the ‘seed of the sun’ due to its fertilising effect on frequently struck areas. The heat and energy from lightning causes nitrogen (N2) in the air and rainwater (H2O) to fracture and recombine to form ammonia (NH3) and nitrates (NO3), the rain carries the ammonia and nitrates to the ground, where they can be assimilated by the plants. The ancients noticed the lushness of the plants where lightning regularly struck and the fatness of the animals that grazed there. The adder’s lightning zigzag stripe renders it sacred and it also occurs as alternative name for the druids – Nadredd, Nathracha - hinting at a special Taranis dedication of the class.]

Jesus/ Jésus/ Yeshuah of Nazareth is widely believed to be an aspect of a single deity and crucial in the redeeming of the souls of all mankind by acting as both ‘scape-goat’ and ‘passover lamb’ – parallel Jewish rituals. His deifying characteristics are usually described as healer, personal redeemer and key to eternal life. He was dealt the death of a traitor and a slave and the cross is often referred to in Christian literature as ‘the tree’ but it seems to be poetic licence rather than a prophecy or direct biblical quotation. As Jesus, he did not receive a sacrifice but was the sacrifice. Preachers do often draw parallels between that ‘tree’, the Tree of Knowledge and the Tree of Life mentioned in Genesis, but not of a ‘god of the trees’.

I am not aware of a connection and do not see one apart from the homonym – are there any Esus/ Woodsman/ Earth realm myths from the Celtic canon that further connect the two? I am genuinely intrigued.
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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby MountainGnome » 06 May 2015, 20:37

Jesus/ Jésus/ Yeshuah of Nazareth is widely believed to be an aspect of a single deity
A single deity in three parts. For whatever reason, all major forms of Christianity have adopted the doctrine of the trinity and it's a major issue for both Jews and Muslims, which are both also Abrahamic religions. So that alone should give us reason to stop and think -- why has Christianity adopted a God who consists of 3 different aspects, when the two major Abrahamic religions before and after Christianity have not, and consider this blasphemous?

Note the Christianity also developed in a part of the world that was pervaded by religious views and spiritual practices with common origins as the Gaulish religion, as evidenced by the Cabeiri cult/mystery school and its proto-Greek origins that are also associated with the Etruscans, Pelasgians and even the Phrygians in Asia Minor (where Celtic tribes also settled). I don't think this is a coincidence.
and crucial in the redeeming of the souls of all mankind by acting as both ‘scape-goat’ and ‘passover lamb’ – parallel Jewish rituals.
And it is obvious that the New Testament is filled with Jewish references and customs. But not completely. So it's interesting to look at where it differs. The Communion, for example, of ritually partaking of flesh and blood (even in symbolic forms) does not appear to be a Jewish custom. Neither is the trinity, of course, and the Jews themselves testify that many "prophecies" retroactively fitted by the early Christian church to refer to Jesus, in their original contexts, do not apply as such. So the whole figure of Jesus as being necessitated by the Jewish scriptures at all comes into question.
I am not aware of a connection and do not see one apart from the homonym – are there any Esus/ Woodsman/ Earth realm myths from the Celtic canon that further connect the two? I am genuinely intrigued.
There are some further connections that I've already found, but they're in relatively minor historical/religious details that I've yet to piece together into one big picture. This is something I've been interested in pursuing for a few months and the pieces are slowly coming together one by one. When I read what I posted above the other day, it was a pretty big "piece" of this puzzle and so I immediately wanted to share it.


There is one other important significance that might be worth noting at this point. The ancient religions of Europe were heavily involved with the seasons and the movements of the Sun and Moon, and the ancient Gaulish religion and the religion of the Cabires are great examples of this. Many people believe Stonehenge was a kind of celestial calendar, but regardless of that there are many monuments all over Europe that act as celestial calendars, where if the Sun rises in alignment with certain monuments, it indicates a solstice, or equinox, etc., and this was important for knowing when to plant or harvest and so was critical to an agricultural lifestyle.

It's pretty common knowledge today that Christmas is not really a Christian holiday. The date of Jesus's birth is never mentioned in the Bible, and if anything the Bible indicates that it was during a much warmer part of the year. If you trace things back far enough, Christmas is just the modern reworking of the winter solstice. Easter is the spring equinox, and all the bunny rabbits and eggs are fertility symbols because, if you have sex around the summer solstice, then you should deliver a healthy baby around the spring equinox and so your baby will spend its most fragile months in warmer weather without being exposed to winter cold.

The Sun makes an arc across the sky as it goes from east to west every day, of course. When the Sun lowers in the horizon day by day towards the winter solstice, as you've probably heard before, it appears to slow down, and finally, around the exact date of the winter solstice, it appears to not move at all for 3 days. After this it begins perceptibly making its daily path higher and higher in the sky towards the summer solstice. Remember that Jesus was dead for 3 days before his resurrection. A lot has been made by this as a strong case can be made that Jesus was originally a representation of the Sun (as the main Cabiric and Gaulish gods also were) that was later reworked by the early church. The manger and the animals and people around him at the time of his birth, as told in the Bible story, also have astronomical significance and are not just trivial details. When all of this is put together it becomes pretty convincing, that this is not just all by chance.


I haven't finished watching these videos but they are loaded with interesting information along these lines as well:

Easter & The Seven Stairs -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QcoJdXKGZbQ

Jesus the Sun God -- https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vK0Yl4Q0tjQ

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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby Green Raven » 07 May 2015, 14:17

The Trinity and the Triple God do seem similar but the composition is different – the Celtic triumvirate are three distinct entities coming together to form a Holy Triple god whilst the christian Holy Trinity are three aspects of a single deity – hence the tag of monotheism.

‘Aspects’ do occur in the other two main Abrahamic faiths – emphasising qualities are 15 names of God in Judaism and 100 names of Allah in Islam – yet the singularity of the entity remains incontrovertible. Christianity adds three more Greek names. The blending of the pagan Roman beliefs to make Christianity more palatable to the empire is quite clear in the RC tradition in that there seems to be the ‘senior’ pantheon – the Trinity, to which has been added on the virgin god-mother of Mary. Next the layer of the ‘apostles’ to whom ‘saint’ Paul tacked himself on after seizing control of the proto cult in from Jesus’ brother James and the surviving disciples. Lastly the ‘household gods’, the 10,000+ saints declared by the popes. But those are distinctly extraneous to the core deity.

I have seen some convincing arguments for the attachment of the Mithras cult to the Jesus story – sun god, virgin birth, etc. but the development of the Roman mystery school is parallel to the growth of Christianity thus one is not derivative of the other.

The Roman adherents cited the Zoroastrian Mithra (max 1000 BCE) as source for their beliefs but again the entity is distinct from the Abrahamic deity and the myths do not correlate as do say, the Marduk and Ishtar elements of the Esther and Mordechai Purimspiel.

I mentioned the ‘scape-goat’ and ‘passover lamb’ rites as the theology of those are intrinsic to the redemption aspect of the crucifixion narrative. Also the communion rite uses the Passover meal as its foundation. The ingestion of blood is strictly anathema to Jewish law and the original narrative demonstrates the elements as parable.

You are clearly onto something with the Cabeiri cult/ mystery school. The associated Greek deities are deep earth gods (‘chthonic’ for the sticklers) and Esus is the Gallic and Brythonic Earth Realm deity – although surface as well as the deep earth harvests of metals and flints, so powerful to the proto-druids and shamans of the preceding gnoses. Interestingly, the Cabeiri deities are not of Indo-European origin and do take us back to the Near East. Not a Jesus connection but a possible import for attributes of Esus/ Cernunnos.

:chuckle: Yes, those missionaries really played fast and loose with their appropriation of festivals and the mishmash of timings. The writings bear no relation to the alleged annual celebrations. The Coligny calendar matched against the surviving ancient Irish writings leave timings in no doubt and harmonising the tales to festivals and seasons (‘horse’ month and the ‘claim’ and ‘arbitration’ months) is so much easier because of it. Have you noticed that almost all of the tales involving drunkenness happen at Samhain? Tempting to fill the apple-bobbing barrel with cider :gulp: .

I, too, am intrigued at the mysticism attached to the odd primary numbers and their multiples. They turn up again and again. I am not yet convinced that the ‘Son’ is the ‘Sun’ however.

Thanks for the YouTube links. Also very interesting.
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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby MountainGnome » 07 May 2015, 19:07

The Trinity and the Triple God do seem similar but the composition is different – the Celtic triumvirate are three distinct entities coming together to form a Holy Triple god whilst the christian Holy Trinity are three aspects of a single deity – hence the tag of monotheism.

‘Aspects’ do occur in the other two main Abrahamic faiths – emphasising qualities are 15 names of God in Judaism and 100 names of Allah in Islam – yet the singularity of the entity remains incontrovertible. Christianity adds three more Greek names. The blending of the pagan Roman beliefs to make Christianity more palatable to the empire is quite clear in the RC tradition in that there seems to be the ‘senior’ pantheon – the Trinity, to which has been added on the virgin god-mother of Mary. Next the layer of the ‘apostles’ to whom ‘saint’ Paul tacked himself on after seizing control of the proto cult in from Jesus’ brother James and the surviving disciples. Lastly the ‘household gods’, the 10,000+ saints declared by the popes. But those are distinctly extraneous to the core deity.
Yes, I understand that. This pattern of having things in threes is a frequent feature of Celtic religions in general. But it is not a common feature of the Abrahamic religions. Though Muslims may have many names for god, they consider Christians to be polytheistic because of the doctrine of the trinity. In Christianity not only are they different names, but it's taught that Jesus and God the Father are distinctly differently entities, that are somehow linked in a mysterious and ineffable way, along with the "Holy Spirit" to make the triad complete. The way I have seen it expressed is "three in person but one in essence." Does that make any sense to me? No. But it is what it is I guess.

My point is not that Christianity is directly descended from the Celtic religions, but that early Christianity was reworked by the Romans. I have seen other writers go so far as to call it a "psy-op" meant to pacify the Jews. I don't know if I would take it that far but at the same time I have noticed something else interesting. The two most rebellious Roman territories were Judea and Gaul. The Jews were eventually forbidden to step foot in Judea, and its name was changed to Palestine, because of all the violent uprisings led by alleged Messiahs come to overthrow Roman rule. And as for Gaul, researchers like Alan Wilson think that the Roman empire never firmly controlled northern France or especially Britain, and that this was later propaganda, probably from around the early formation of the Roman Catholic Church as the predominant political entity in Dark Age Europe, trying to resurrect the "Holy Roman Empire."

So the situation we're presented with is a combining of Gaulish and Jewish traditions to form a religion that eventually became promoted all over the Roman Empire, the same empire that was having so much trouble with Celtic and Jewish tribes. It's an interesting way of looking at it but I'm not convinced that it really means anything at this point.
I have seen some convincing arguments for the attachment of the Mithras cult to the Jesus story – sun god, virgin birth, etc. but the development of the Roman mystery school is parallel to the growth of Christianity thus one is not derivative of the other.
But on the other hand, each individual historical event or movement does not take place in a vacuum. I took a Christian apologetics/theology course that covered the theories regarding this potential cross-pollination and there are multiple ways of looking at it. On one hand religions such as Christianity (which was still considered a cult in the Hellenistic period) and the Mithraic cult are seen as "competitors" with one another, this with the Christian spin that they were antagonistic and of course the Christians would never stoop so low as to adopt ideas from the Mithraic cult. One the other hand, they do resemble each other in some of their symbolism and myths. Especially when you look at what was going on in China or with the Native Americans, these similarities become more striking. They are not only very similar but were taking place within the same cultures and physical areas. Another possibility is that they both adopted certain ideas from an even older belief system, and so they may have shared common roots.

And in this same Christian theology course, you know what else was taught? That modern Christianity also has to adopt some elements of modern and postmodern thought (which are heavily tied to pluralism, ie "everyone has their own truth and no one has all the final answers" -- totally contrary to the traditional view) in order to stay relevant and not be completely abandoned. This translates into Christian evangelists today being taught not to go around claiming they have a monopoly on truth, and even that there are truths in other religions! Compared even with evangelical Christianity of the early 1900's, that is a massive change within Christian theology. The Christian church is struggling today but in the Dark Ages it had the strength to simply absorb other traditions and rewrite its doctrines, or else exterminate entire groups of "heretics," and subsequent generations would hardly know the difference.
You are clearly onto something with the Cabeiri cult/ mystery school. The associated Greek deities are deep earth gods (‘chthonic’ for the sticklers) and Esus is the Gallic and Brythonic Earth Realm deity – although surface as well as the deep earth harvests of metals and flints, so powerful to the proto-druids and shamans of the preceding gnoses. Interestingly, the Cabeiri deities are not of Indo-European origin and do take us back to the Near East. Not a Jesus connection but a possible import for attributes of Esus/ Cernunnos.
I had not come upon this and would be interested in tracing its eastern origins. In general I think the history of the ancient Middle East is a lot better understood than of pre-Roman Europe, especially the farther north you go, and so I always wonder in the back of my mind how much history of ancient Europe has been lost that no one is even able to compare to. Even the term "Indo-European" itself is more of a theoretical construct based on similar languages and cultures, and we've yet to really resolve when and where all of these people shared their common origin. That's something else with a lot of theories and different perspectives.
Have you noticed that almost all of the tales involving drunkenness happen at Samhain? Tempting to fill the apple-bobbing barrel with cider :gulp: .
I've never come across that either but it sounds totally reasonable. The ancient Celtic calendars and festivals seem much more down-to-earth (see what I did there? :razz: ) and practical than what they've been replaced with. Every year was celebrated in all its variety.
I, too, am intrigued at the mysticism attached to the odd primary numbers and their multiples. They turn up again and again. I am not yet convinced that the ‘Son’ is the ‘Sun’ however.
I wonder about the same thing. The PDF I linked in the OP suggests a symbolism like this: 12 stones commonly in a circle representing the months, with a single stone in the middle (making 13) representing the idea that they are all 1 in their chief god (which I think might have been more like the Algonquin idea of an all-pervading universal force or energy, what the Algonquins call Manitou). But I also think that these ancient Celtic tribes had a lot of knowledge about earth energy that modern science has yet to catch up on, and in that case who's to say all these prime numbers aren't related to that in some technical way?

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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby Green Raven » 09 May 2015, 18:02

Totally agreeing with you on the re-working of christianity although I am not sure that the Romans were ever interested in mollifying the Jewish people. The territory was (and is) essential as a land bridge between North Africa and Asia Minor. During the sack of Jerusalem (CE 70), after running out of wood, the Roman soldiers were amusing each other by finding ever more bizarre positions in which to nail civilians to the walls.

I have always thought that the structure and beliefs of the early Catholic Church, when contrasted with the raw, early christian cult – essentially a liberal messianic Judaism with some striking similarities to parts of the Essene credo – are very informative about the structure and organisation of pagan Roman beliefs. In a similar way to how the introduction of practices from the Celtic Church enlightened about the culture that introduced them (i.e. the Irish druids), particularly, the confessional, the peregrinatio and the Celtic tonsure (resembling the Deal warrior-priest’s religious crown).

Yes also on the Holy Roman Empire – only declared over (as a political entity) in 1806, although I am sure that in the souls of the adherents it marches on.

Britain (and Gaul) certainly gave Rome a run for its money. There were many rebellions after Boudicca, the massacre on Mona and the genocide of the Ordovicians. The last ‘biggy’ resulted in an attempt to set up an alternative Emperor, either or both Marcus and Gratianus, remembered as “Gracianus Municeps,” the father of Ambrosius Aurelianus/ Emrys Wledig in the Gildas and Geoffrey of Monmouth manuscripts. Emrys is transformed into the uncle of King Arthur but may have been one of a long line of ‘Great Bear’ reborns, who come to save Britain at the times of great need. The etymologies of both his Latin and Brittonic names are fascinating in pagan terms.

Trying to get religions to fit current events and fashionable attitudes does seem to have been a preoccupation of the Roman (and subsequent) ruling classes. Rather like watching the popular paranoias of the West in the themes of European and Hollywood movies :) . Murnau’s ‘Nosferatu’ (1922) is a masterpiece of cinema but makes uncomfortable watching when one realises that Count Orlock (very different from Stoker’s ‘Dracula’) is a Jew cartooned by a proto-Nazi, ‘spreading the plague’ (the literal meaning of the Latin title). Likewise the ‘Red invasion’ and McCarthyist hysterias encapsulated by the ’50s / ‘60s sci-fi boom.

On the subject of mystical numbers, I am reminded of Hippolytus’ Philosophumena, in which he relates:
“The Keltic Druids applied themselves thoroughly to the Pythagorean philosophy, being urged to this pursuit by Zamolxis, the slave of Pythagoras, a Thracian by birth, who came to those parts after the death of Pythagoras, and gave them opportunity of studying the system. And the Kelts believe in their Druids as seers and prophets because they can foretell certain events by the Pythagorean reckoning and calculations. We will not pass over the origins of their learning in silence, since some have presumed to make distinct schools of the philosophies of these peoples. Indeed, the Druids also practice the magic arts.” (I, xxv 1, CE 250)

A key symbol of the Pythagorean School was the Tetractys, a triangle formed of dots from the first four whole numbers. It was a membership symbol, used for all arithmetical-geometric constructs and believed to be a key to the form of the universe. The other essential Pythagorean diagrams were the Gnomon, invented by Anaximander. The odd Gnomon generates all the odd numbers from the Monad or unity, whilst the even generates the even numbers and rectangular figures. (Eurytus, Diogenes Laërtius, Aristotle). Worth researching for a Christian context.
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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby Bard A Madsen » 27 Jun 2015, 17:16

The trinity idea goes way back to 12,000 years ago. http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/ ... -Eden.html 2nd picture, you will see three libation pails which show up later in Sumerian art as three vases. As far as I know the true meaning has been lost, but I have an idea on what it very well could be. Concerning the videos, what they are describing is the new version of the genesis of the original story which is on a completely different level. The story evolved through time to bring on a diurnal mythology to the worship of the Sun. What really happened, is that a huge Comet struck the Earth when it was warming up from the last ice age and drove it back into cold and darkness for a thousand more years (the Younger Dryas) and killed off most of the mega-fauna of North America such as the Mammoth and Saber Toothed Cat and forming the Carolina Bays. When the sky cleared and the Sun came back it was venerated and explains the true meaning for the Sphinx, the Great Pyramid, and other great megalithic monuments, including Stone Henge. I find it very possible that the three are the Comet, the Sun, and the Earth or the Moon... Within the pails most probably blood, water, and milk that would be poured out to propitiate the Gods to let the Sun continue to shine after such a long darkness.

I wrote and compiled a book about this subject that was published just last week. It contains many relevant comparative mythological and religious stories from around the World, from cuneiform text to Little Red Riding Hood and from hieroglyphics to the North American indigenous people which all tell of the same story of the Great Fire from the sky and the Flood. It's mainly excerpts from old scholarly books compiled together as to let them tell the story, as if I were to paraphrase you would not believe me. Plus the shear volume of research would take me forever to completely re-write. I read over 120 books from cover to cover and many years to figure this all out. As far as I know this is a one of a kind book on this perplexing mystery. I didn't go into the full details of many aspects as it would have been 700 pages long to educate the reader, thinking that in the information age one can easily look up what you don't already know such as comet orbits.

https://sites.google.com/site/fromthedeepoceanabove/

If any of you read it and have the time to point out obvious mistakes feel free to inform me via the email on the site as I could not get anyone to edit it for me. Like p. 196 1/3rd down *wear* should be *where* type of thing.

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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby Bard A Madsen » 27 Jun 2015, 18:22

Correction : Diurnal and or Annual aspects of the Sun.

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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby MountainGnome » 28 Jun 2015, 07:01

Thanks a lot for this, Bard. I'm actually finishing up a book of notes myself that I'm going to self-publish through Amazon, that is much broader and less organized, but hopefully will lead to more concentrated work later.

What you say makes sense and connects with a lot of other things I've been bringing together. The ancients seemed to celebrate every winter solstice and spring equinox as if they were half-expecting the Sun's life-giving warmth to not return. That seems like an alien concept to us today, since we "know" that the four seasons are very regular and follow one another year after year after year. For a people with a memory of a very cataclysmic destruction that disrupted these seasons, they probably would be very grateful for every spring equinox.

What we call the last "ice age" may not really have been an ice age at all, but just a different configuration of the surface of the Earth that we have not fully appreciated. Siberia was not a tundra, which is a very odd fact if this was just a much colder period of time in Earth's history. It's possible that instead the Earth's axis was just slightly different, and the north pole was over the Hudson Bay, as many researchers have suggested. I know exactly what you mean about having to present the source material itself, Bard, as some of these ideas really do start to get wild, but neither are they just fantasies. I think we are just beginning to realize in our modern age how narrow a view of history we have had in the past.

I'm personally still not settled as to what the trinity really "means" but it appears enough in other parts of the world to be older than the Celtic religions themselves.

I finally finished reading the book I mentioned in the OP a couple weeks or so ago and I found even more obvious relations between ancient Gaulish religion and Christianity. The author himself began to even comment on it, in the context of it making it easier for later Christian missionaries to convert these people.

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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby Bard A Madsen » 28 Jun 2015, 12:58

bsbray

I'm really glad my book is done cause it was a lot of work and got to the point of glazing over the more I re-read it. I found that Ingramspark seems to be the best way to go. I don't plan on converting it to electronic books as it seems to be contradictory of the subject matter cause when it happens again those gizmos are going to be worthless at perpetuating the knowledge. Good luck.

The majority of the myths clearly indicate that it was cold, wet, and gloomy for a long period of time. It seems that event killed off the memory of the time before and when the Sun finally came back it brought on the stories of creation. A lot of the stories around the world say that man was made from clay (mud) which confirms the stories of dryness as almost a new concept. I believe this is what the story of Osiris is all about.

I've tryed to believe in an axis shift and just can't, there is just way too much mass, even if struck hard. I believe the world had a completely different and stable atmospheric trade wind pattern before the comet strike. From the deserts of China to north Africa was to be green with plenty of stories of huge cedar trees, which usually need lost of water. Yes, one could say we are comet-ose !

I found the myths of the Celtic to be watered down so much that it is hard to glen much from them. One story comes to mind about a hero fighting on the plains with a great bull, which is correct, but lacks of any more information.

I can't read French ! Was it good ? There is one I really want to read that is in German, maybe someday soon the electronic translators will be smooth flowing. I wonder at what mankind lost just in text from the world wars. I'm not too sure on that concept, I believe it washed over a belief system that was already there. Somewhere you mentioned Hu... Talk about way out there... Could the H on the Gobekli Tepe monolith mean the same thing after such a long period of time and still retain the same symbol of H ?

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Re: Hésus: Jesus of the Pre-Roman Celts

Postby Bard A Madsen » 01 Jul 2015, 11:19

The best book I've found so far is The Mythology and Rites of the British Druids by Edward Davies 1809
https://openlibrary.org/search?q=edward+davies
I see there is one on Celtic language also. In my research I found that some of the best stuff is in the late 19th and early 20th centuries.


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