Fire from water:curiousities

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Fil.F.
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Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Fil.F. » 06 Feb 2015, 12:40

What is the probability of the gaulish know
about the chemical element named "gallium"?

The element gallium have the property with
other metals as aluminum or zinc to make fire
from pure water.

Curiousity: The name "gallium" was given for
the reason that there are mines only in the
gaulish land.


Perharps, this discovery was happened when
wells was perfurated, and this way
the contact of gallium with water was made.
The celts cast metals offering into water
like swords and some other artifacts, and
this comlete the formula for incinerate
water. Perharps this explain perpetual fires
in Kildare monastery.

In the "Clavicula Salomoni" there are others formulas
for take fire by magic that was used by greek
philosofers, but I don't remember the reference.
As Iris cristal against the circle of the sun.
And too shell eggs and quicklime for take fire from water.
The composition of the last is merely calcium (nitrate or sulphate)
and this element it's found in some animals bones
like snakes, and human bones...in some countries
there are legends about marsh fires and folcloric
roles in forests and cemeteries.

In "alchemy" the nitrate of phosforus is made by
the transmutation of the calcium, and this was
used in the past for make perpetual lamps with
urine.

see the BBC video:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ZTb640Rbq74

Off course that the stone is not urine...^^
Last edited by Fil.F. on 06 Feb 2015, 14:51, edited 1 time in total.

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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Whitemane » 06 Feb 2015, 13:11

Gallium is named after France, because it was discovered by a Frenchman, Lecoq de Boisbaudran, with its existence predicted by Mendeleev some years earlier. He called it eka-aluminium.

It is unlikely that the Gauls knew anything about it. It is found in coal, but I doubt that they were mining coal for traces of gallium.
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Fil.F. » 06 Feb 2015, 15:14

Is correct, but when we tract about celts, some questions are in doubt. For example,
the existence of castles in pre christian periods, that we only have respald in miths over
the Hill of Tara. That sacred mount was a base for a castle, in the ancient tale a group of
people with magic bells banish the castle forever. Gallium is to a name of various plants.

But in reality, a tribal way to do the fire is the minucious prescrition of the priests:
the nine woods of the forest. Per signal I don't remember all of them :) someone do?

The indo-european people used the turpentine spirit
as inflamable for light fires, that is obtained from
pinus resin or from the therebinth. This oil is famous for
his religious use in the bible. The greeks use this for solve
dye for tinct ships.

:tiphat:


Verses of Dryden's version of Virgil's Aeneid:

"O Patron of Soracte's high abodes,
Phoebus, the ruling power among the gods
Whom first we serve, whole woods of unctuous pine
Burnt on thy heap, and to thy glory shine;
By thee protected, with our naked soles
Thro' flames unsinged we pass, and tread the kindl'd coals.
Give me, propitious power, to wash away
The stain of this dishonourable day".

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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Green Raven » 06 Feb 2015, 16:05

Mmm… love the smell of pine resin – a fresh, cleansing smell. I always daub pine pitch on my wicker man as part of the cleansing rituals for Beltane. He is filled with whittled emblems of whatever is bothering us about the world or our lives rather than passing British coppers :wink: . As he burns, he ignites the twin fires that he straddles and the purifying aroma fills the air.

I am curious as to your choice of gallium – I know it as only a modern discovery. Did you happen across a reference using the term in an older text?


Edited to add:

The Ars Notoria (the last, sometimes omitted, section of The Lesser Keys of Solomon ) grabbed my attention for a while as it is demonstrably ancient (before 1200s CE) and is concerned with the improvement of memory to a vast scale in a pictorial manner as well as other bardic skills – oratory, quick thinking, etc.

The early druids were noted for their intellect, encyclopaedic minds and instant recall as well as hobnobbing with Greek philosophers (many classical sources). I was trying to establish whether druids may have used the ‘memory palace’ method – possibly using a visualisation of the oak tree as their ‘palace’. In Ancient Greek thinking ‘the oak’ was shorthand for a container with vast holding capacity.

There seems to be more than a hint that many Irish druids were absorbed by the catholic church and became parish priests and hermits (hiding in plain sight?), with their practises entering the Celtic church. Practises not seen before such as the intimate confession and personal penance rather than the previous public ashes and sack-cloth displays; the penitential journey (peregrinatio) and the Celtic tonsure – a band shaved from ear-to-ear rather than the derided ‘adze-head’ – resembling the druid headpiece seen on the ‘Deal Warrior’, accepted now as a Briton priest a.k.a druid.

If the druidic practises continued under the mantle of esoteric catholicism then why not emerge as a semi-cabbalistic ritual treatise several centuries later?

I would be interested in your thoughts on this.
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby DJ Droood » 06 Feb 2015, 22:42

Could someone put this in limerick form, please.

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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Fil.F. » 06 Feb 2015, 22:49

About the gallium...

Is just a curiosity, the formula with gallium was considered by me as a simple probability. The fire obtained this way it's so very pure and epic, and do an allusion to Brighit and his service like a celtic Vesta - the foundation of the society.(a little "interpretatio") but the fact that the fire in kildare was a perpetual fire, let me trying to understand how...gallium was my first hypothesis. In India are ancient themes with fire and water united. Brighit is a goddess with these associations.

The reference made by me using the tale of the legendary Tara castle, was made pure and merely for the same logic ("pre-Christian castles?").This element and the formula also make allusion to ufology and ancient aircraft.

...

about your question:

According to the "Auraicept" the poets (Fili) was a secret society with a language intelligible("gaelic"). And situate a rising or revival at Drumketa in 590 A.D. About that time they numbered 15.000, they were suffered to continue but under restrictions. This reference would be found in Auraicept's introduction on the 1st page. And continue about the bards...but over druidism no direct reference it's made.

A leap will transport us to the eighteen century when the Ancient Order of Druids (AOD) was found, it's so much time. If the ancient philosophy were not survived under the church.

:where:

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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Whitemane » 07 Feb 2015, 01:50

I don't know where you're getting your information on gallium from, but it's wrong. It's not pyrophoric, and it doesn't react explosively with water. You might be getting it confused with Francium, which is in the right column of the periodic table to react explosively with water (you should see how cesium and rubidium react with water), but it's rare and radioactive and would have been unknown to the Celts.
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby DJ Droood » 07 Feb 2015, 03:02

Very nice :D
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Green Raven » 07 Feb 2015, 16:06

Could someone put this in limerick form, please.
There once was a Gal from Gaul-li-um...
(splendid example of the genre)

How's that?..... :grin: ....Pretty good eh? :grin:

Well, the thread was put here after all: viewforum.php?f=297

Nice. A salutatory lesson in choosing your board with care. :grin:
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Fil.F. » 08 Feb 2015, 20:02

Owh...

About the name given to the element discovered in 1875 by the French chemist Paul Émile (François) Lecoq de Boisbaudran (1838-1912):
“He announced the discovery in his article "Caractères chimiques et spectroscopiques d'un nouveau métal, le gallium, découvert dans une blende de la mine de Pierrefitte, vallée d'Argelès (Pyrénées)" in 1875, without any explanation for the choice of the name (note)”:

“Shortly after the naming of the new element the story came that the discoverer Lecoq de Boisbaudran has named the element after himself: gallium > gallus = cock = in French: le coq. Two years later, in 1877, Lecoq published "About a New Metal, Gallium" (note). In this second article he explained why he named the new metal Gallium, "On August 27, 1875, between three and four at night, I perceived the first indications of the existence of a new element that I named gallium in honor of France (Gallia)." France is Lecoq's native country and the place of discovery (cf. Francium)”.
http://www.vanderkrogt.net/elements/element.php?sym=Ga

The element gallium and aluminum together in contact with water produce hydrogen, this gas in contact with the oxygen of the air spontaneously liberates fire. Is not explosive, like an inflammable, but this will depend of the formula used, some are cold fire for example. The combustion of hydrogen for his time produces helium.
Yes no registers was found about on celtic documents, I guess. And in the world just the oldest formula on the “Clavicula” mentioned before, or marsh fires…etc.

Beleave it.

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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Whitemane » 08 Feb 2015, 23:04

I don't believe it.

Neither gallium nor aluminium show any significant reactivity with water, even at the boiling point of water. Mixing them together does nothing except wreck the crystal structure of the aluminium. Gallium is very good at wrecking crystal structures.

What does work is the reaction of aluminium and the alloy galinstan. Galinstan is an alloy of gallium, indium, and tin. That will produce hydrogen when contacted with aluminium in water, and I suspect the indium and tin play a catalytic role in the reaction. The gallium appears to prevent the aluminium from oxidizing. You can ignite the hydrogen, and it will burn to water, but it will not form helium (He.) The only place where hydrogen burns to helium is in a star.
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby DaRC » 09 Feb 2015, 14:39

Francium
Was that discovered by the Franks who took over Gaul after the Romans? :grin: sorry for being facetious :oops:

There once was a Catholic Druid
whose penitential progression was fluid
his bottle was serpentine
containing turpentine
drunk, he became pyrophoric and blew it.
Most dear is fire to the sons of men,
most sweet the sight of the sun;
good is health if one can but keep it,
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Fil.F. » 09 Feb 2015, 15:04

Video demonstrating the reaction between gallium, aluminum and water: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=JasZ8V6LpbQ :duck:

You do not believe on.
So watch this video: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bekzB7aUaaQ
Or this: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7Zdx0YrzHVk

However, one conclusion we could take from: the uses of hydrogen in antiquity it’s probably true. Some evidences would be found in ancient Egypt, inside the pyramids we have the panel with ancient relief indicating lamps and ducts for gas. The question is how the ancients had produced hydrogen? If they not knows these metals before?

:shrug:

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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Whitemane » 09 Feb 2015, 15:53

Of the three, only one refers to gallium, aluminium, and water, and it may be that they are using galinstan rather than gallium itself. That is not particularly clear from the video or the comments.

The other two appear to be dealing with methane seeping into water supplies from the ground. If ancient Egyptians did use gas lighting, it would be much more likely that they used methane from marsh gas.
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Fil.F. » 10 Feb 2015, 18:24

True! But how to make methane without hydrogen? Methane is more danger than the hydrogen isolated from water. The case retracted in the last videos it's what I propose for the discovery: a well contamination by metal powders. In that case the industry produce tungsten powders perhaps were happen the contact with aluminum in water.
But the intent of this post is to propose a way to maintain perpetually the fire, as constant in tales about Kildare temple and Brighit.
In ancient times there were a stone, perhaps a kind of mineral coal, that when is burn never extinguish his fire. Today nothing about it is found by his name, called “Abaston”- this reference also would be found in the “Clavicula of Salomon”. However, perhaps some conexion with the fire from water can exists…

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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby DJ Droood » 10 Feb 2015, 22:31

Q: What did the bartender say when oxygen, hydrogen, sulfur, sodium, and phosphorous walked into his bar? A: OH SNaP!

Q: What do you get when you combine samarium, argon, tellurium, asenic, and sulfur? A: SmArTe AsS

Q: What element is derived from a Norse god? A: Thorium.
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Fil.F. » 12 Feb 2015, 19:20

So water we have...so perfect for mead :)
wonder flavor, by a la t'ène style fountain!
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby DaRC » 13 Feb 2015, 12:27

Sorry to go back a few posts but I just noticed this..
the existence of castles in pre christian periods
my wife was traumatised as a child. They were on holiday in Dorset and her father suggested a day trip to Maiden Castle. Her youthful romantic mind conjured up images of a fantasy castle, not dissimilar to Neuschwanstein
http://www.neuschwanstein.de/englisch/palace/
what she got was a big hill with grass on it and some embankments
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/days ... en-castle/
She's been somewhat sniffy about ancient hill forts ever since.
Most dear is fire to the sons of men,
most sweet the sight of the sun;
good is health if one can but keep it,
and to live a life without shame. (Havamal 68)
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby DJ Droood » 13 Feb 2015, 12:49

Sorry to go back a few posts but I just noticed this..
the existence of castles in pre christian periods
my wife was traumatised as a child. They were on holiday in Dorset and her father suggested a day trip to Maiden Castle. Her youthful romantic mind conjured up images of a fantasy castle, not dissimilar to Neuschwanstein
http://www.neuschwanstein.de/englisch/palace/
what she got was a big hill with grass on it and some embankments
http://www.english-heritage.org.uk/days ... en-castle/
She's been somewhat sniffy about ancient hill forts ever since.

A quick thinking parent would have told a child it was a "fairy fort" and all the wee aristocrats lived underground....she might have believed them well into adulthood and become a druid!
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Re: Fire from water:curiousities

Postby Fil.F. » 15 Feb 2015, 21:53

It's a wonder example of castle base.

Visionary castles are common, so take care with the dream to not become real. :)

A group of persons together form a circle. What center is the center? There
are two centers, what is the true center? About reunion...
A true and a false center, take the true for conversations.
And a dream will not be an imagination.
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