defining shamanism

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Orianda
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Postby Orianda » 25 Feb 2004, 09:33

No problem :D
My mom must have been frightened by a swarm of punctuation marks when she was carrying me....cause to this day I avoid using them properly!

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Dryadia2
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Re: defining shamanism

Postby Dryadia2 » 23 Nov 2005, 18:31

might i get the opinions of others on what exactly constitutes shamanism? what is a shaman? i have had so many different answers over the years...

spring is
gestating,
chalci


I am bumping this thread in light of all the 'New Age Shamanism' that has been presented recently on the internet, and in books, and get back on track to the original message of this topic:

Defining Shamanism: What is Shamanism?

Here are 2 links that may be of interest:
http://www.toteg.com/wannabe.html
http://www.virtualcs.com/dsm4/lesson3_8.html

Peace and Blessings,
:dryadia: /|\
I would rather wake up in the middle of nowhere than any city on earth - Steve McQueen

Corvin
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Re: defining shamanism

Postby Corvin » 17 Nov 2008, 03:39

might i get the opinions of others on what exactly constitutes shamanism? what is a shaman? i have had so many different answers over the years...

spring is
gestating,
chalci


:fire: Shamanism from the old ways is taught or handed from person to person more than trained from a book. These people and their words, actions and ceremonies are carefully guarded.

A Shaman is not self appointed, but is given this distinction by close observation of their actions from the people over a long period of time.

The Creator and Earth Mother cleans these people in Spirit. It is Creator and Earth Mothers spirit helpers who instructs and directs the people in their walk on the Shamanism sacred path.

The Shamanism path in life is not a easy path to walk .... It is filled with personal sacrifice and self denial of creature comforts ..... Problems come in waves and there is much danger from worldly temptation ....

A fake Shaman has three primary objectives when establishing a relationship with an individual or a group.

The Faker wants to control the situation by convincing the prey of their legitimacy. The Faker will go to great lengths to impress the people with their background, knowledge and Shamanism ways. The Faker will often use unsuspecting common acquaintances and drop names of well-known and respected people to further their quest for legitimacy.

A Faker will quickly determine your personal needs and capitalize on this by dangling an emotional or spiritual carrot that will somehow satisfy that need. By controlling the carrot, the Faker Shaman controls you. The Fake is a master of emotions and uses this tool to open your pocket book through your heart.

The process of usurping your trust does not happen overnight. The experienced Faker is patient and allows time to soften the peoples defenses. Often, the Faker works on several individuals and groups unknown to each other so comparing notes is more difficult.

The Faker wants you to feed their ego and sense of grandeur. Fakers like to give themselves respected titles (impossible to verify) and assume positions within small groups to feed insecurities. They probably want this more than money. But, money is still the primary goal if only as icing on the cake.

The Faker may start by asking for small gifts or favors, then as the people appear to be getting closer to the carrot, the ante goes up and larger gifts and more money are required. Often, the Faker will create elaborate fundraising schemes, ostensibly for the needy, from which he will rake his profit.

Some American Indian Fakes are not so sly or patient .... Reminiscent of the flim-flam con men, they promote sweat lodge ceremonies, sun dances, pipe ceremonies, rites of passage and other sacred ceremonies for a price, ranging anywhere from $100 to $1,000 .... They are here today and gone tomorrow.

A true Shaman does not take, their feelings for all of Creator and Earth Mothers creation, is quiet evident.

A true Shaman places the people first and seeks to bring truth and harmony.

Dealing with the heartaches of the people comes naturally and easily without judgement or pity. Payment for their services in money or gifts is not important to them. Payment has already been rendered by the Creator and Earth Mother, long before the people in need sought their help.

I worked for many years under supervision by the elders of my people and many others .... Learning does not come from books, but is 'experiential', knowing is by doing.

When the path of Shamanism becomes difficult for me and my heart becomes heavy, I strive for more understanding. When Creator and Earth Mother has cleaned my heart, mind and spirit, a spirtual awakening takes place. By this the Creator and Earth Mother gives blessings of wisdom, strength, faith and knowledge to be used to walk and help other people walking forward on their sacred Shamanism path.

What else can be said to help you know the difference between a Faker and true Shaman. Ask Creator and Earth Mother.

Pray for discernment, understanding and vision. Trust your gut instincts.

Remember that Creator and Earth Mothers message is not forsale .... Beware of IRAB ( I Read A Book ) Medicine People who charge money and make you suffer while they laugh all the way to the bank, walk with peace.

Creator as Chief,

Grayeagle

Much appreciated and enjoyed. What ever your path, consider their are those who make proclamations and those who have proficiencies. Gratitude is fine but indebtedness is not, beware of those making proclamations and expecting indebtedness. Thanks for being here are sharing insights... look forward to returning.

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Salomea
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Re:

Postby Salomea » 17 Nov 2008, 08:59

I just love that kind of coincidence :wink:
Just few hours ago, (before falling asleep) I read introduction to the book "Shamanism: An Encyclopedia of World Beliefs, Practices, and Culture" where was whole chart about definition of shamanism and discussion about it ^^

Referring to those authors (sorry never before I was interested in that subject), there's no one definition, for one it's just about Siberian tribes and for other about whole phenomena, for some with such tools, for others without, it was pretty long actually, but what I anted to say- my reaction on it was "wow it's like with druidry, any who practices, has their own point".
Sorry for not getting in that discussion any deeper, but I don't think I'm anyhow knowledgeable.


I'm Ukrainian.....a Polish Ukrainian....a PUKE!
I love all people..and pyrogies!!! :D
The Stalinist regime...was at LEAST as horrifying to US,as it was for the Nothern Americas...to be 'invaded '.
The difference...of course...is modern warfare.
Kill more...less time.

WE survived...and have a vital culture...
The JEWS survived...and still struggle...but are vital...
The American Indian,has survived as well...
It could be argued...that the Poles and the Ukrainians ...still have sovreign countries...
But an absolutley HUGE amount of people ,came to North America...when it was at it's worse...MY culture..MY heritage...still exists,and the language is still prominent..in places like Smoky Lake,and Vilna Alberta.
OUR safety and secure place on the globe...was taken from us at one point.

Cougar
Cougar I think I don't understand your point of this. Are you suggesting that your heritage only/the best survived in places like Vilna Alberta? what then with the Ukraine/ (Poland ?) ?
You gain wisdom by talking with stars,
but to see them you need deep dark.

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CornishShaman
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Re: defining shamanism

Postby CornishShaman » 29 Mar 2009, 14:28

The trouble with defining Shamanism is that so many different types of practice and practioners are lumped under one lable!
Shamans true are only from the Siberian Tungus tribe, the word means something like 'someone in aggitated ecstacy' (???).
The Shaman term is an Anthropological one, used to try and group a number of differnet Tribal Priests, etc together from all over the Planet, so its no wonder it doesnt always work!
There are so many different types, basically who could claim to be Shamen but some would fit, some wouldnt, in these terms! Animism is a more accurate description as all Shamen practice this, wherever they are!
The trouble is some specialise in certain things, others in different things, most generally do some form of Healing and work with Spirits, though how they do it can differ greatly!

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Re: defining shamanism

Postby spiritgal » 30 Sep 2009, 14:32

Yes Jaguar you are correct. Most, if not all, come to the Shaman path through a near death experience. For me it was a stroke. With no warning signs and no reason why, I was up one minute and out the next. Came to to discover I was paralyzed on my left side. yet I felt this most amazing peace surrounding me. it was hours before I got to the hospital and by mid day the next I was completely fine, physically. The doctors have no known cause for it. I now have no sense of time or date and live between and words many times escape me. I have always had gifts, and for reasons shut them out. I now cannot. This is a Path i MUST follow.
Sky Bear- thank you so very much for your give away of wisdom. I will ask Creator to heal you and bless you as your words blessed me at this moment. aho.
Blessings

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Re: defining shamanism / The Otherworld

Postby MiriamSPia » 27 Nov 2010, 19:30

first I read a number of the posts to get perspective. Here're a few comments to give perspective. The first Ovate notebook notes I have include a few pages about the Otherworld/s. What are they? In this respect, I included the Underworld - which also has a few meanings and implications.

I read some posts of people who seem to be able to do things which I do not think I do, or at least not so well. Some guy said he went to the Otherworld and came back with good information. Uh, I might obtain insight but my impression is that I don't get it the same way. I think I might have made it to one of these places but I don't think my normal self handled it well. I used to suffer from minor colds for weeks at a time during my childhood - this is one reason I drink a lot of warm beverages as a grown woman, but I also think I am the kind of person who find too many trips to some Otherworlds to be rather draining.

I felt impressed and humbled by some of the other posts. Its different when you're the only one who does something from how it is when your amongst a group who do it. I'm going to cross post this in Otherworld or start a new thread.

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ideagirl
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Re: defining shamanism

Postby ideagirl » 08 May 2011, 18:07

The trouble with defining Shamanism is that so many different types of practice and practioners are lumped under one lable!
Shamans true are only from the Siberian Tungus tribe, the word means something like 'someone in aggitated ecstacy' (???).
The Shaman term is an Anthropological one, used to try and group a number of differnet Tribal Priests, etc together from all over the Planet, so its no wonder it doesnt always work!
There are so many different types, basically who could claim to be Shamen but some would fit, some wouldnt, in these terms! Animism is a more accurate description as all Shamen practice this, wherever they are!
The trouble is some specialise in certain things, others in different things, most generally do some form of Healing and work with Spirits, though how they do it can differ greatly!
I don't think the anthropological definition is quite so general as your post makes it sound. The main distinction between shamans and other types of priests/priestesses is that their method of doing what they do (usually physical or psychological healing, sometimes divination or prophecy) involves mentally/spiritually traveling into another world (or another dimension of this world--define it how you will, but the basic idea is that it's a different aspect of reality). There may be exceptions but every type of shaman I've ever heard of is accompanied or guided during these travels by one or more spirit beings, usually in the form of animals.

They may accomplish this through ritual, dreams, and/or by ingesting entheogens (peyote, etc.), but the basic point is the same: They are journeying on a soul level. As opposed to, say, sitting where they are in this world and receiving messages from a spiritual being, which is another form of priest/priestesshood.

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Ywen
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Re: defining shamanism

Postby Ywen » 28 Oct 2013, 23:07

This is a really interesting thread. I haven't had time to read it all the way through yet so maybe my thoughts will change in due course. I'm just a newbie bard but I've been developing my mediumship for nearly 10years & work with several forms of healing including trance healing so am very interested in how shamanic healers work. I'm a bit uncomfortable with how common the term 'shaman' has become in recent years because it's something I've always associated as being passed down through tribal societies with an animistic tradition, whether from Siberia, Mongolia or elsewhere. If someone has lived with these tribes & been initiated by their shamans that's one thing but a lot of people with no formal training seem to teach shamanic this or that these days & i find that a bit worrying. Having said that, I see no problem in a modern shamanic tradition developing that reflects the fact that the western world long since lost our tribal communities & associated traditions & maybe the OBOD training fills that gap nicely...I'm looking forward to finding that out for myself :) .


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