Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

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DJ Droood
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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby DJ Droood » 07 Jul 2010, 16:53

So instead of baying for blood, or reacting cynically, why don't we do something productive, and actually try to change the world? Now is a good time, cause people listen.
Splendid idea! We wouldn't want to send out "negative vibes", so I resolve to immediately start thinking about how I can change the world, instead of expressing anger/dismay/disgust/cynicism at BP/Exxon/Chevron and the government departments in all our countries who are supposed to work for us, but really work for giant corporations...and all their insipid apologists...But no worries, it is a non-issue for druids, apparently...nothing the fairies can't sort out on their own.

How about we start with a haiku?

email my MP
wipe away your tears BP
it's not you it's me

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Aylyn » 07 Jul 2010, 17:15

instead of expressing anger/dismay/disgust/cynicism at BP/Exxon/Chevron and the government departments in all our countries who are supposed to work for us, but really work for giant corporations
you can always express your anger and dismay, in fact, anger often fuels positive action if we are able to use it. A perfectly good example of this is the Black Power movement in the US, which was sparked by a little old lady being refused a seat on the bus. Finding someone to blame, however, is not a positive action, it is a step backwards. I have said it before: Finding someone to blame only dissipates your anger, because "justice has been served".

And writing haiku certainly does not help, just as little as the fairies do. It is humans that need to help, and that means every one of us. It is that POV I want to wake in all of us, rather than your helpless feeling that expresses itself in needing someone to blame. Too often we feel helplessly exposed to "multinational corporations", and a disaster like the oil spill only emphasizes this helplessness. What we need to recover is the feeling that we have power and are not helpless pawns, and this is what I mean by not wanting someone to blame, but to have change.
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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby DJ Droood » 07 Jul 2010, 17:57

instead of expressing anger/dismay/disgust/cynicism at BP/Exxon/Chevron and the government departments in all our countries who are supposed to work for us, but really work for giant corporations

you left out the salient part of my sentence in your quote...the real problem....


"...and all their insipid apologists"

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 07 Jul 2010, 22:34

Now if they had just spilled beer it would be a whole different issue! :thinking:
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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Nightfalls » 09 Jul 2010, 03:48

Now if they had just spilled beer it would be a whole different issue! :thinking:
The Worlds Biggest Party Foul. Imagine how wasted the fish would be. :gulp:
Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole
I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance, I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears, Looms but the Horror of the shade
And yet the menace of the years Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll
I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby DJ Droood » 13 Jul 2010, 11:50

Awww, geez, now I feel really bad for BP....we made them force the British government to release a mass murderer. They should sue us.

A group of U.S. lawmakers have called for an investigation into whether BP may have played a role in lobbying for the release of Abdelbaset al Megrahi to secure an oil contract with the Libyan government.

Megrahi, now 58, was convicted and sentenced to life in prison for the 1988 bombing of Pan Am Flight 103 which killed 270 people, including 189 Americans.
BP, which plans to begin offshore drilling in Libya in the coming months, touted the 2007 oil agreement as "the single biggest exploration financial commitment an international energy company has ever made to Libya," according to the company's website.
http://www.cnn.com/2010/POLITICS/07/13/ ... tml?hpt=T2

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 16 Jul 2010, 20:35

Ever notice how deals are made?
Never about beer though... sad.

They have finally capped it! :yay:

But the mess is going to get really screwed up when the hurricanes come wandering through the gulf.
This kind of thing happened in Nigeria as I understand it, but never got the media attention it did here.

It might be a good thing in a way, that now this has an fix. Should have called Roto-Rooter sooner, :wink:

Now we need to call Mr. Clean.

It's the American way
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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 20 Jul 2010, 14:20

We need some "stop leak" for the system now, as they plan to pump the well full of mud or concrete.
I expect the seepage from the ocean floor is also part of the deal.

This however, is already a ocean killing disaster, possibly as I understand one of many which has a cumulative affect.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/omoyele-s ... 49220.html
This week 700 million pairs of eyes from all around the world were focused on Africa to see Spain finally win Football's World Cup. It's now time those eyes focused on another kind of ball -- balls of oil fouling the environment off the coast of Nigeria.

The story line sounds familiar. A big oil company (in this case ExxonMobil) leaks vast amounts of oil, pollutes the waters (in this case the Atlantic Ocean) killing the fish, local industries and any hopes of a rapid clean up.

It's time the world paid attention. I've been reporting this story since ExxonMobil decided to import a 30-year-old leaking oil platform to Nigeria from Angola, a platform even Angola's government regulators rejected! I'm no businessman, but that doesn't exactly sound like a good investment.

But just as BP has handled its oil spill disaster off in the Gulf of Mexico, ExxonMobil and the Nigerian government are handling things incredibly poorly too. In fact, they're trying to act as if this spill hasn't happened. American media outlets have been denied access to Nigeria. The government has imposed a 50-mile media blackout around the spill site -- from land, air and sea -- so no one can get close and see the disaster first hand. My sources tell me that ExxonMobil officials have been bribing local Nigerian officials in the hope they can "make it all go away."
http://www.guardian.co.uk/environment/2 ... -oil-spill
Conservationists warned yesterday that one of Australia's worst off-shore oil spills was killing wildlife and "massively contaminating" one of the world's last great wildnernesses. Amid a fourth attempt to plug the 64-day-old leak at the Montara drilling rig, the slick – which has already spread over an area 10 times the size of London – continued to expand at the rate of 300 barrels of oil a day in an area of the Timor Sea famed for its marine reserves and coral.

A survey by the Worldwide Fund for Nature found dolphins, migratory sea birds, sea snakes and marine turtles were exposed to toxins. The slick has killed hundreds, possibly thousands, of animals.

Since August 21 when there was an accident at the Montara offshore drilling rig's well head, around 403,000 litres of oil have been pumped into the Timor Sea. The rig is owned by the Thai oil company PTTEP.

Satellite images show a 25,000 square kilometre slick spreading across the surface of the ocean and spilling into Indonesian waters, threatening the marine reserves of Ashmore and Cartier reefs along the way.
Oil spills can increase the levels of toxic arsenic in the ocean, creating a long-term threat to marine ecosystems, according to researchers from Imperial College London.

Arsenic occurs naturally in seawater, but in high concentrations it can cause birth defects in sea life, disrupt photosynthesis in marine plants, and enter the food chain, killing birds and other animals that feed on the creatures affected.

As well as containing arsenic, oil can clog the natural filtration system in seafloor sediments that removes arsenic from seawater, said the scientists in the journal Water Research.

“We carried out our study before the leak in the Gulf of Mexico occurred, but it gives us a big insight into a potential new environmental danger in the region,” said lead author Wimolporn Wainipee in a press release.

“Thousands of gallons of oil are leaked into the world’s oceans every year from big spills, offshore drilling, and routine maintenance of rigs, which means many places may be at risk from rising arsenic levels.”
http://www.helium.com/items/1882339-doo ... ling-event
The warning signs of an impending planetary catastrophe—of such great magnitude that the human mind has difficulty grasping it-would be the appearance of large fissures or rifts splitting open the ocean floor, a rise in the elevation of the seabed, and the massive venting of methane and other gases into the surrounding water.

Such occurrences can lead to the rupture of the methane bubble containment—it can then permit the methane to breach the subterranean depths and undergo an explosive decompression as it catapults into the Gulf waters. [6]

All three warning signs are documented to be occurring in the Gulf.

In essence;
Off-shore drilling could well be the very worst thing we can do.
Sure there is a lot of oil down there, possibly more than we know.
But at what price?

Are we playing with total disaster? At a catastrophic level?
It is fairly obvious that the international oil companies are ill equipped, and poorly managed, unable to deal with the potentials they are dealing with.
Who is to blame? We can argue that they are directly, however all of us use the stuff, and without a market, the oil companies would not exist.
It is a tough call, but one we as Drui see clearly and squarely on our own shoulders.
Almost everything relies on our dependence on oil, in one way or another.
We would need to break the chain, the chain stores which use our failed culture to make billions as we fail to even have enough jobs.
This dependency is not just killing fish. It is killing our culture at the very core, from every aspect of human life.
Now it threatens every form of life on earth. That is a mighty big problem.


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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Dendrias » 20 Jul 2010, 19:05

It is a tough call, but one we as Drui see clearly and squarely on our own shoulders.
Almost everything relies on our dependence on oil, in one way or another.
We would need to break the chain, the chain stores which use our failed culture to make billions as we fail to even have enough jobs.
This dependency is not just killing fish. It is killing our culture at the very core, from every aspect of human life.
Now it threatens every form of life on earth. That is a mighty big problem.
Your words in the gods' ears, Merlyn.
That might be the second step to the self-annihilition of humankind, viewed from a perspective 200 years from now.
"Such suicidal stupidity can only be fiction"

Have You got a way to break the chain?

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 20 Jul 2010, 20:12

Have You got a way to break the chain?
I find the first step is to get away from the "who is to blame" mindset.
Chasing after all those who try to screw me is all-consuming, and this first step is perhaps the hardest. It is made difficult by the tangled web of debt our world lives on.
This interlaced circle of dependence is almost impossible to escape. There is no land where people can just live, it is all owed or owned.

So getting a little breathing room has taken some doing.
Having taken that step, I look back and see there really is no other way, the way of the past is sadly dangerous, laced with poison of all kinds.
My small space is just big enough to be free of the insane amount of taxes, laws, rules, sewage, poison water, and the list goes on.

Then going past that is working to be independent. The farm, geothermal, working from my own land, no longer commuting, and all are the many steps further.
As I say, I look back and see now, how every arm and leg, every thought and effort I had was being sapped.

Much more to do, of course, but I have a start. :merlyn:

I do fear that Killing the ocean is just not going to concern people enough. . . even after it is as dead as Lake Ontario...
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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 24 Jul 2010, 13:50

Is it over yet?

I wanna make sure we don't burden those Right Wingers with further blame... I mean they all have the deaths caused from the Iraq and Afghan wars to weigh on their souls.

We don't want them thinking about their 'anti regulation' philosophy and it's affect on the oil spill.

Poor BP, why do they have to be burdened with the Blame when it's really environmental terrorists like us who wanna drive our cars to work.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 25 Jul 2010, 16:42

No. :wink:
It is far from over.
BP has the Alaska pipeline to deal with, already past its ability and too old to take the amount of oil being pumped through it, ready to blow a wad at any moment.
This, along with any number of other outdated, poorly run rigs the possibility is very high for another disaster before this one is ever cleaned up.

As I see it, the truth is simply put; blame.
Really, gasoline is easily worth more, to the point; $6.00 US per gallon. Or even possibly more, if we want responsible drilling, real safety for workers and same goes for coal.
Why isn't this already so? Why are we going the easy route, making lives expendable and putting our very food supply at risk?

Its obvious isn't it?
If gasoline and coal were responsibly managed, the price would be responsibly high, and driving to work would be a luxury most could not afford. This would then jump-start the need we all knew in the 70's. No one would want to afford a job that takes hours to drive to. Why we think our time is expendable doing so is another matter.
If the oil companies do what they should, they would in essence start the clean energy revolution. All of this technology has been available, just never put into the mass production needed to make it affordable, worth investing in or produced by manufacturing locally. All I see is the SOS of trying to produce eco-tech by slave labor in other countries which do not stop the problems of slave labor, pollution and such. We will need to just as importantly produce our clean energy alternatives, as well as fuels, with full responsibility to the environment.

What does this mean?
Work. You know, that exercise that makes us healthy, a balance to our comforts like electrical appliances. We fail to work in = balance to what energy we consume.
The food we eat, sucks oil to get, is grown in gerrymandered farms, shipped and canned, underpricing our own ability to farm. And don't start pointing fingers just yet....

Those countries which are allowing this are taking the cream and feeding the workers the slop. Such a failed impression we may have on our "advanced culture" indeed.
So very few could survive if the lights went out...

What little sustainable life is available would end if given a reality check..

Low gasoline prices... is really the culprit in disguise, ready to blow a wad any day.
The banks propped up on consumables, know too well there is really nothing behind that printed money.
And grabbing a wad of money will only last a short while, as things progress.

If we really paid the price for our technology, electricity, food and such it would become very clear what we need to do.
But the wool over the eyes continues, while more and more become linked to the grid, sprawling masses of homes and lives supported by a system of false energy, while it saps the very skills and ability we need to survive.

By the time the poop hits the fan, most will be left in the dark, and the poor countries will also have been sapped by international companies which simply vanish when the day comes. Could you and yours survive on the land you have, if any? Where does an apartment dweller plant his crop, hunt for meat or use skills to support family?
All local relationships and community have been reaped into the larger oppressive governmental systems which know too well just exactly how much tax and revenue is needed to make a farm fail, stop anyone from being able to switch to free solar, wind or even just produce a product to make a living. Instead the governments reap by supporting outsourcing to prop up their immense budgets and free style political lives to the tune of $800,000.00 a year or more, with full benefits to complement it all.

The puppets dance on the hands of the banks, on one hand a democrat, the other a republican, having a party all the while.

So who is to blame? BP?

really...

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 27 Jul 2010, 08:16

In this instance BP shares the blame with those who support Conservative politics and the Conservative politicians that fought to remove red tape and regulations from the oil industry when Bush was in power.

If you vote for the right wingers that take the US to War for Oil, and deregulate an industry that (as you've made a case for price regulation) needs to be regulated then you have environmental blood on your hands.

It may have been out of fear to vote for those guys, because you (Not directed at any particular individual) were told to be afraid of the Tali-boogey-ban-man.... but that doesn't absolve you.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby DJ Droood » 27 Jul 2010, 13:27

In this instance BP shares the blame with those who support Conservative politics and the Conservative politicians that fought to remove red tape and regulations from the oil industry when Bush was in power.
You are falling into the same trap as the BP apologists who say "everyone" is to blame (and thus, no one)....certainly you can talk about lack of regulation and oversight by all administrations in the United States, both Democrat and Republican, going back many years, but it is the leadership of BP that should be held criminally responsible and the shareholders who should pay for cleanup and restitution. (although they won't...Bush, Obama, etc. all work for the oil companies....Hayward has about as much risk of seeing a jail cell as Bin Laden)

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 27 Jul 2010, 13:46

I wish it all was that simple....
In the news today,
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010 ... ulf-coast/
The Coast Guard is responding to a new oil leak on the Gulf Coast.

This spill involves a well in a portion of Barataria Bay known as Mud Lake, near Bayou St. Dennis about 10 miles south of Lafitte, Louisiana.

Although this latest spill is unrelated to the Deepwater Horizon disaster in the Gulf of Mexico, it's blocking vessels of opportunity based in Lafitte from accessing the Gulf, as officials assess air quality and other health and safety issues at the site. (Boats staged in other areas are unaffected).

"It's apparent that some type of vessel has hit the well head, has laid it over," said Donald Nalty, COO of oil spill cleanup contractor ES&H, who just returned from a flyover of the site in single engine seaplane. "It's probably about a four inch casing and it's spewing out oil and natural gas."

Nalty said the oil was coming out as a mist and was dusting nearby marshes.
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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 28 Jul 2010, 07:31

I wish it all was that simple....
In the news today,
http://liveshots.blogs.foxnews.com/2010 ... ulf-coast/

Wait..... you are posting a Fix News link.....

Oh.... I see....

Is that why you disagree with me on this? (I'm only making assumptions on this matter).

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 28 Jul 2010, 13:12

They all run the same news. Each likes to pull or push their own spin, but if you judge by what news I post, then I will tell you...
I watch the news to see what the most stupid and idiot people are doing, and yes, for that Fox news is about it. :-)
the possibility is very high for another disaster before this one is ever cleaned up
An oil line or "cap" was left for someone to hit with a boat, and of all the things to example how much they do not care, along with disarming alarms, failing to listen to workers and even experts, we see just how well illustrated my post above is. Heck it only took one day for them to fulfill my prophecy. :whistle:

I do not trust the right hand puppets any more than the left as they give their puppet show and keep everyone thinking they are not one in the same.
To be Pendragon of our own life is to know better. :wink:
2112548_f260.jpg
2112548_f260.jpg (19.17 KiB) Viewed 5541 times

I would rather think for myself than ever put my faith in the "party system" on either side.
Moderate isn't it either, as that is just allowing the party system to spend even more.



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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 28 Jul 2010, 23:11

To be clear though, we are not talking about left hand puppets.

We are talking about right wingers who exist in both American parties, and 100% in the republican party.

It doesn't matter that you think they are just as bad as the other, these particular puppets are to blame and should be held accountable.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 29 Jul 2010, 01:43

Well, you know puppets switch hands now & then.. :thinking:

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Dyro, Dduw, dy nawdd;
ac yn nawdd, nerth;
ac yn nerth, ddeall;
ac yn neall, gwybod;
ac o wybod, gwybod yn gyfiawn;
ac o wybod yn gyfiawn ei garu;
ac o garu, caru Duw.
Duw a phob daioni.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 30 Jul 2010, 12:39

"Where is all the oil?"
That is the question now. And oddly, that large spill we all saw is gone.
Still more to clean, and about a week or so of it still to come ashore. And granted the dispersant lingers.
Right now they are making effort to answer this question.
Image :emerit:
Dyro, Dduw, dy nawdd;
ac yn nawdd, nerth;
ac yn nerth, ddeall;
ac yn neall, gwybod;
ac o wybod, gwybod yn gyfiawn;
ac o wybod yn gyfiawn ei garu;
ac o garu, caru Duw.
Duw a phob daioni.


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