Fairys... what are they?

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cursuswalker
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby cursuswalker » 08 Mar 2011, 19:11

As we gathered for our next festival we had over 30 people hanging on his every word, and he began saying "the floaties said..."
Demonstrated right here is the reason why I insist on scrutinising such assertions. A culture grew of accepting this theory without question. And very soon priestcraft inevitably emerged, with some fraud/delusional person acting as a self-appointed intermediary to tell other people what the floaties "wanted".

Now it might have been World Peace or being kind to the Earth. But it might also have been to purify the nation of impure races, or that women should obey their husbands.

THIS is why I can never see such beliefs as inherently harmless.
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby wolf560 » 08 Mar 2011, 19:36

Yes, it was sad to see so many people gathering just because "he said so".
It was heartening to see that they saw the evidence and backed off, but I was also a little let down that they had not looked objectively previously.
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby DJ Droood » 08 Mar 2011, 20:32

Yes, it was sad to see so many people gathering just because "he said so".
It was heartening to see that they saw the evidence and backed off, but I was also a little let down that they had not looked objectively previously.
Just remember that some people are pulling their sled up the steep part while others are resting on top, so reaching out and giving them a hand is kinder than simply sliding down the other side yelling "weeee!"
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby cursuswalker » 08 Mar 2011, 20:49

Yes, it was sad to see so many people gathering just because "he said so".
It was heartening to see that they saw the evidence and backed off, but I was also a little let down that they had not looked objectively previously.
Just remember that some people are pulling their sled up the steep part while others are resting on top, so reaching out and giving them a hand is kinder than simply sliding down the other side yelling "weeee!"
Yeah, but its acutally a slope all the way up, in terms of effort.
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby wolf560 » 08 Mar 2011, 21:00

LMAO
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby eeepapillon » 08 Mar 2011, 23:51


First of all where is the aggression? I think what you mean is robust criticism :D

So then, if someone tells you something they believe in is absolute truth then the onus is on them to establish that is the case, precisely because truth IS such an elusive thing. This has nothing to do with lying. It has to do with experience and the verification of the origin of that experience.

I do not doubt that people have experienced things that they call fairies. What I doubt is the true origin of such experiences until such time as evidence is provided that fairies were, in FACT, the origin of those experiences.

So what is this "perfect circle" to which you refer?
I did actually mean 'robust criticism' and attempted to edit my post to however I failed by unintentionally pressing the wrong button! :-)
You didn't say anything bad...I just felt rather "Woah! Let's all calm it down and have some tea?!" You know how that happens sometimes? Yeah. :wink:

Anyway.

I don't think ( :-| ) I've ever once said I believe in fairy's, however I acknowledge that there are numerous accounts of people all over the place that have said, and do believe in them, and I don't know what the origin is, but until I do, I'm gonna say that something exists (whether physically in life or chemically in the brain) to cause that. Which I think is more or less what you said.
I just happen to have had friends in my real life that believe in them wholeheartedly, and have seen them, so it becomes harder for me to think of it as a chemical thing, but more of a physical thing. But I don't really know.

And by a perfect circle....I just meant that people in general can be really quick to dismiss anything that doesn't fit neatly into their lives and what they believe in. It's like when everyone was certain that the universe revolved around Earth, few wanted to accept an alternative theory until there was no other choice but to do so. I'm not saying it's the same case with fairy's, but yeah.

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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby wyeuro » 09 Mar 2011, 03:10

as a hippy i worry at your emphasising the cultural feature of the group concerned. i'd like to know, for the sake of 'peace among the nations' and without getting too heavy, what features of a person identifies her/him in your mind as a hippy?

as a hippy, i know and have known many people who identify as hippies. as with any group of people, some are more credulous than others and some are more prone to letting their imaginations run away with them. so for the sake of what they used to call 'political correctness', it would seem to be a good thing to get it off hippies. without taking offence, we are a people, a people of peace and we like to be treated with respect.

not all hippies believe in magic, though many do, and those who do are not the only people who believe in magic. :-( druidry is about magic, after all - the gwersi teach magic, the thinning of the veil, the philosopher's stone, the ancestors, afterlives and fairies and spirit animals who guide us. an array of opinion is possible concerning all these things, and rational, realistic skepticism is necessary, but scoffing and scorning doesn't clarify anything. :shake:

be that as it may, i am aware of large numbers of intelligent, rational people who do not identify as hippies who have studied the orbs that appear in some photographs who have assured themselves very scrupulously that they are not the result any known physical cause, who even thought of checking the cleanliness of their lenses and the defects of their equipment, lighting, techniques, etc. okay, they cannot help but observe that orbs occur most frequently in the photographs of believers who have actively sought signs of fairy presences, who truly believe them capable of showing themselves and earnestly desire them to - conditions conducive to the thinning of the veil, to the magical manifestations they seek, and which are absent when scornful skeptics set out to disprove the phenomenon. if you invite magic, it appears. if you are hostile, you kill it.

but how true is it that all photos with orbs are taken with poor quality cameras?
That was when I took a few cameras and began snapping pictures of the area.
The really good cameras got clear pictures and the cheap cameras (of course) had "floaties" all over them.
The pictures had 'floaties' because the older cheaper cameras had dust on the interior of the lens. The light bounced off the inside of the camera and was recorded on the pictures.
the above begs some questions. you seem to imply that
1. you took down details of all the cameras that took photographs which showed orbs, e.g., the brand-names, the original retail price plus all other indicators of quality, the age, and condition.
2. you actually had the consent of all other photographers present to dismantle their cameras in order to check for the presence of this dust (which incidentally affects only some photos and no two alike).
3. the dust concerned created orbs on only some photos and never the same pattern of orbs on any two. so this is dust that disappears for some photos and reappears for others?
4. you checked the inner lenses of all cameras present and proved that this magic floaty-dust was on all the ones that took orb-bedecked photos and not on any that took orbless photos only.
4. you have shown under test conditions that by putting dust on the interior of the lens of a camera that has never taken photographs with orbs in them, you can make them take orb-bedecked photos exactly resembling those claimed to be magical.

if not, you must understand that your argument resembles that of people who scoff at crop circles, claiming that they could be made by one skilled motorcyclist dropped into the field by a helicopter, while nevertheless, crop circles keep happening and no-one has ever come forth to demonstrate. :shrug:

or in other words, you are casting an orb-killing enchantment as surely as those you deride are casting a magic inviting enchantment.

wy
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby DJ Droood » 09 Mar 2011, 03:42

re: the ghost orbs, there was an article on that in the "Junior Skeptic" section of Skeptic Magazine last summer. They did a top 10 list of urban myths debunked...I believe they recreated the ghost orbs by having the camera's flash illuminate droplets of water in the air.

http://www.skeptic.com/junior_skeptic/issue37

I don't think they are that uncommon....lots on google images....
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby wolf560 » 09 Mar 2011, 04:34

Hello Wy,

I apologize for any inference and will no longer use that term so as not to insult anyone else here.

In a previous message thread the term 'Hippie' had come up to describe a group of people I encountered a decade ago.
They dug up a very sacred place and sunk ten 15 foot copper rods into the ground so they could "amplify the power of Nature in the Circle of the Nexus".
They then poured a ten foot wide, six inch deep concrete slab over where they had sunk the copper rods into the ground.
To keep the area to themselves they strung chicken wire fences all around the area.

Someone called them "misguided Hippies" and it just stuck in my mind.

I formally apologize for the use of this term, but it was the same group of idiots I described here that I had described previously.

...and yes, we had one of the only three cameras in the entire group (few could afford them in that group a decade ago).
...we did not need to dismantle anything, only one camera produced those "orbs" and it produced "orbs" every time it took pictures
...the orbs were different in all the pictures but that is because of light refraction dependent upon what we were shooting at, worse at dusk and dawn and in humid conditions.
...we were able to "make" my camera produce pictures with orbs in it if we shot pictures during light rain at dusk or dawn with a flash
...the one "Orb capturing camera" could not produce the orbs unless it used a flash

The corollary would also have to be proven for the "Orb capturing camera"
Why was it the only camera to "capture images of Ghosts", "snap pictures of Pixies", or "snare the soul of a wandering Faerie Folk"?
Maybe Sony cameras have the "eye adjust feature" to prevent 'Red-Eye exposure' but do not yet have the 'Faerie Filter'?

All I know is that after the pictures we had the real problem....
...a proselytizing Pagan bent on getting everyone to follow him after claiming that the "Faeries told him so"...

The camera and pictures only began the problem.....
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby wolf560 » 09 Mar 2011, 04:35

DJ..!!

You found Ghosts..!!! (or Orbs, or Pixies, or .....)

That picture is a near exact duplicate of what was shot near the Nexus at our farm.
I don't use my flash so I never managed to catch any of them on film
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby Blind Owl » 09 Mar 2011, 18:35

if you want to understand more - hope this isn't mistaken for advertising - i wrote a book on this subject about ten years ago, with a foreword by philip carr-gomm. it's out of print now but you can download it for free as a pdf file here: http://wyldwyverne.wordpress.com/2010/1 ... wild-moon/ ‎ or read it online here: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B-
wyverne /|\
I have downloaded it and look forward to reading it, Thank you wyverne. :)
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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby wyeuro » 10 Mar 2011, 05:31

wyeuro wrote:
if you want to understand more - hope this isn't mistaken for advertising - i wrote a book on this subject about ten years ago, with a foreword by philip carr-gomm. it's out of print now but you can download it for free as a pdf file here: http://wyldwyverne.wordpress.com/2010/1 ... wild-moon/ ‎ or read it online here: https://docs.google.com/leaf?id=0B-
wyverne /|\


I have downloaded it and look forward to reading it, Thank you wyverne.
well, and a blessing on you with the reading of it!
wyverne /|\

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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby wyeuro » 10 Mar 2011, 05:33

I apologize for any inference and will no longer use that term so as not to insult anyone else here.
well that's good and noble of you - i like you the better for it!
wy

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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby dvawlqos » 29 Jul 2011, 15:37

I tend to think of them as nature spirits. And I think that they exist and are charged with preserving nature and teaching humanity how to live with its brothers and sisters in nature. I can usually feel their presence, so the notion of them being a fiction is sort of alien to me.
Much that was called religion has carried an unconscious attitude of hostility toward life. True religion must teach that life is filled with joys pleasing to the eye of God, that knowledge without action is empty. All men must see that the teaching of religion by rules and rote is largely a hoax. The proper teaching is recognized with ease. You can know it without fail because it awakens within you that sensation which tells you this is something you’ve always known.

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Re: Fairys... what are they?

Postby TRAKER » 12 Aug 2011, 19:44

I have to say that I am personally highly influenced by traditional lore in this department. I think that they are like us. They look like us, sound like us, can be good or bad/friendly or violent, live in a magical other world and we are most likely to encounter them at night. I personally regard them as powerful beings that are not to be toyed with or laughed at. They can be our best friends, but annoy them and disrespect them at your peril.

But that is only what I think.

If you want an excellent book on this subject, look at 'Meeting the Other Crowd' by Eddie Lenihan. It is a book all about traditional Irish fairies and the lore that surround them by Ireland's last great story teller (who openly believes in them himself).

In the end, your personal beliefs should be yours. Just think about it (and maybe meditate) and I'm sure it will come to you.

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