The Atheist Druid

A forum for the discussion of heuristic questions relating to Druidry using verifiable methods. Fo-fúair!
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treegod
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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby treegod » 30 Apr 2014, 16:24

Beautifully put. Yes, words are for our benefit, not for Living Groves.

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deepwater
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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby deepwater » 01 May 2014, 01:04

:old: ,,less bark,,more wag,, If you want to know the answer,,stop asking other ppl,,do more of your own thinking and less telling,,no one gets the same answer to the same question
Through my eyes you still see,, Through my heart you still live ,, For as long as i have breath you will sing,,Thanks Mom

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby Mannan » 10 May 2014, 23:54

Ancient Greek philosophers such Plato and his subsequent followers through into the Common Era (Neoplatinists and the writings of the 'Hermetica') made a succinct expression of what 'spirit' is: The 'element' which is apprehended by the mind. All other elements at the roots of nature (Fire, Air, Earth and Water by the old reckoning) were perceivable by the senses, but gods and spirits were perceived with the mind. This is in itself a position congruent with atheism, if you think about it!

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby DJ Droood » 11 May 2014, 03:18

I think atheism, especially the neo-atheism of the last few decades, is as much a political stance as a philosophical one. IMO, the vast majority of people...at least the one's I seem to encounter...couldn't give a crap about religion either way...they work, they eat, they watch sports, they hang out, and they go to church a couple of times a year to please their mothers. Religion is an irrelevance in the modern Western world. However, the bizarre yokels with the polyester suits and comb-overs who want to regulate our bodily functions and teach our kids nonsense don't seem to want to go away quietly, so "Dawkensian Atheism" has sprung up in response. I think in another generation, when Western Christianity has both feet in the grave, atheism as a movement will have waned at about the same pace...assuming another doctrinaire religion like Islam or Reformed Dominionist Druidry hasn't filled the vacuum.
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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby DaRC » 13 May 2014, 13:32

Reformed Dominionist Druidry
Splitters :grin:
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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby treegod » 14 May 2014, 12:03

I knew I'd find it in the end. Enjoy!

God Words
How can you call God great,
When that word cannot stand before God without crumbling?
So fragile is greatness.
Words cannot measure or measure up to God,
Futilities they are,
Labels that flap in the wind.

Creator, sustainer, destroyer;
How silly!
Omnipresent, omnipotent, omniscient;
How quaint.
All, nothing, many, one;
Preposterous to think in numbers!

Words cannot and should not
Be equated with the source of all things.
So I call it mystery
Forgetting all abstractions
And getting on with vital life
Meeting God face to face
In the here and now.

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby Mountainheart » 14 May 2014, 15:22

I knew I'd find it in the end. Enjoy!

God Words...
:applause:

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby deepwater » 14 May 2014, 19:44

I saw where the Atheist want the military to appoint an Atheist pastor to tend to their needs ,, How can you have an anti pastor,,The military already have counslers psycs and doctors you can talk with about problems,,Its like they have a need to have a foot in someone elses life to feel good about not believing in much of anything,,, To be Druid ,you have to believe in something around you under you and in you,,,To be or think anything else is just interfearing in everyone life with no purpose other than to interfear,,,yes my spelling sucks :grin: and im ok with that
Through my eyes you still see,, Through my heart you still live ,, For as long as i have breath you will sing,,Thanks Mom

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby DJ Droood » 14 May 2014, 20:13

I saw where the Atheist want the military to appoint an Atheist pastor to tend to their needs ,, How can you have an anti pastor,,The military already have counslers psycs and doctors you can talk with about problems,
Does a pastor have to be there just for problems? What if a military person wants some advice on her upcoming marriage, or maybe organizing a naming ceremony for his baby or something? Why shouldn't people who don't believe in Deepwater's gods or set of beliefs not have the same right as other soldiers to chat with someone about life's issues?
To be Druid ,you have to believe in something around you under you and in you
uh-oh, another druid rule I missed! You are begging the question however, assuming that if someone doesn't believe what you believe in...god/gods/leprechauns or what have you...they must not believe in anything of value...because *you* don't "get it", they must not be valid as...Druids? People? Citizens?
Last edited by DJ Droood on 14 May 2014, 20:53, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby Oakapple » 14 May 2014, 20:53

To be Druid ,you have to believe in something around you under you and in you,,,
Perhaps to be Druid you have to experience something around you, under you and in you....

Although I'm not sure you "have " to do anything specific.
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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby Heddwen » 14 May 2014, 21:09

I saw where the Atheist want the military to appoint an Atheist pastor to tend to their needs ,, How can you have an anti pastor,,The military already have counslers psycs and doctors you can talk with about problems,
Does a pastor have to be there just for problems? What if a military person wants some advice on her upcoming marriage, or maybe organizing a naming ceremony for his baby or something? Why shouldn't people who don't believe in Deepwater's gods or set of beliefs not have the same right as other soldiers to chat with someone about life's issues?
To be Druid ,you have to believe in something around you under you and in you
uh-oh, another druid rule I missed! You are begging the question however, assuming that if someone doesn't believe what you believe in...god/gods/leprechauns or what have you...they must not believe in anything of value...because *you* don't "get it", they must not be valid...Druids? People? Citizens?
Is the advisory role that you speak of, that of an 'anti pastor' or that of a friend? or, does it really matter either way? What I'm trying to get at here is the 'need' that some people have to invest in another person to help them over a difficult path/advise them ...isn't that why we have friends anyway?

I don't believe that all druids have to believe in gods/goddess to qualify as a druid. I think that this has been discussed ad infinitum on this thread and certainly on the forum in the past. To me, there must be different levels of atheism just in the same way that there are different levels of 'believers', I think that we identified them again in the past. I feel that everyone has a spiritual side, even if this is to enjoy a nature walk or a beautiful sunrise.And that spiritual side is a key element to druidry, that and a reverence for nature.

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby deepwater » 14 May 2014, 21:24

Maybe it just the wordage we all use that conflicts with our thoughts and feelings,,there must be a better word to use than Atheist in this contex,,
Through my eyes you still see,, Through my heart you still live ,, For as long as i have breath you will sing,,Thanks Mom

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby treegod » 15 May 2014, 10:58

Deepwater, what do you believe an atheist believes/doesn't believe?
I enter the grove
And sit by a tree

In such a place as this
I am enthralled by beauty

The Awen surrounds
As broadband poetry

There are no gods to hear
No spirits to see

So what on Earth do I connect with?

Me

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby DaRC » 15 May 2014, 14:35

Does a pastor have to be there just for problems? What if a military person wants some advice on her upcoming marriage, or maybe organizing a naming ceremony for his baby or something?
It would seem to me that the non-spiritual, or common, atheist would be served by a counsellor, psychologist or psychiatrist in situations where a theist would seek divine counsel. From a purely atheist perspective surely a naming ceremony is just a party to introduce your baby to your family & friends - it's name is on the legal document.
As an atheist friend of mine would put it - I would talk to my real life friends not some person who has an imaginary super powerful friend that they 'represent'.
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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby DJ Droood » 15 May 2014, 15:35

I would talk to my real life friends not some person who has an imaginary super powerful friend that they 'represent'.
Sometimes it is good to talk to a neutral third party....family and friends can ocassionally spin their advice....I think that regarding the matter Deepwater raised, it is a simple matter of fairness to offer the same services to all members...non Abrahamics can experience existential conundrums just like everyone else that falls somewhere between a coffee chat with a buddy and a rectal thermometer and zoloft prescription.

Edit: I would also like to add that I think a properly trained Druid, maybe with some counseling credentials, would make a great non-theist chaplain/pastor. Coming from a non-dogmatic, yet spiritual (loosly defined) perspective, I think a Druid chaplain could serve a pretty wide-cross section of employees (or prisoners or what have you) who maybe would like to learn some grounding and meditation practices, get in touch with themselves and nature, conduct/plan a wedding, etc., and be able to respect the person's atheist (or even theist) world-view without hypocrisy.

From what i know of Christian counselors and chaplains , they spend a lot of time encouraging people in their faith, telling them to keep believing in Jesus, seek fellowship with other Christians to shore-up their beliefs, etc....An Atheist or Druid pastor could do pretty much the same thing...encourage people to trust themselves and their ability to reason, find meaning in nature and relationships, etc.
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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby Brân Gannaid » 02 Jun 2014, 06:03

I would talk to my real life friends not some person who has an imaginary super powerful friend that they 'represent'.
Sometimes it is good to talk to a neutral third party....family and friends can ocassionally spin their advice....I think that regarding the matter Deepwater raised, it is a simple matter of fairness to offer the same services to all members...non Abrahamics can experience existential conundrums just like everyone else that falls somewhere between a coffee chat with a buddy and a rectal thermometer and zoloft prescription.

Edit: I would also like to add that I think a properly trained Druid, maybe with some counseling credentials, would make a great non-theist chaplain/pastor. Coming from a non-dogmatic, yet spiritual (loosly defined) perspective, I think a Druid chaplain could serve a pretty wide-cross section of employees (or prisoners or what have you) who maybe would like to learn some grounding and meditation practices, get in touch with themselves and nature, conduct/plan a wedding, etc., and be able to respect the person's atheist (or even theist) world-view without hypocrisy.

From what i know of Christian counselors and chaplains , they spend a lot of time encouraging people in their faith, telling them to keep believing in Jesus, seek fellowship with other Christians to shore-up their beliefs, etc....An Atheist or Druid pastor could do pretty much the same thing...encourage people to trust themselves and their ability to reason, find meaning in nature and relationships, etc.
I think of myself as "non-theistic" and was pleased to see you mention that viewpoint. I readily use folklore with its rich allegory and metaphor to create my worldview, yet I do not "believe" it fundamentally as an absolute truth.

I also agree that having non-theistic chaplains would be something very different than consulting a mental health professional. Just making tough life decisions sometimes benefits from a disinterested third party who shares one's "wave length," so to speak. I would really like to have a Druid to turn to when I feel something is so private that I don't want to involve family or friends.
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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby Aphritha » 02 Jun 2014, 17:18

I would talk to my real life friends not some person who has an imaginary super powerful friend that they 'represent'.
Sometimes it is good to talk to a neutral third party....family and friends can ocassionally spin their advice....I think that regarding the matter Deepwater raised, it is a simple matter of fairness to offer the same services to all members...non Abrahamics can experience existential conundrums just like everyone else that falls somewhere between a coffee chat with a buddy and a rectal thermometer and zoloft prescription.

Edit: I would also like to add that I think a properly trained Druid, maybe with some counseling credentials, would make a great non-theist chaplain/pastor. Coming from a non-dogmatic, yet spiritual (loosly defined) perspective, I think a Druid chaplain could serve a pretty wide-cross section of employees (or prisoners or what have you) who maybe would like to learn some grounding and meditation practices, get in touch with themselves and nature, conduct/plan a wedding, etc., and be able to respect the person's atheist (or even theist) world-view without hypocrisy.

From what i know of Christian counselors and chaplains , they spend a lot of time encouraging people in their faith, telling them to keep believing in Jesus, seek fellowship with other Christians to shore-up their beliefs, etc....An Atheist or Druid pastor could do pretty much the same thing...encourage people to trust themselves and their ability to reason, find meaning in nature and relationships, etc.
I think of myself as "non-theistic" and was pleased to see you mention that viewpoint. I readily use folklore with its rich allegory and metaphor to create my worldview, yet I do not "believe" it fundamentally as an absolute truth.

I also agree that having non-theistic chaplains would be something very different than consulting a mental health professional. Just making tough life decisions sometimes benefits from a disinterested third party who shares one's "wave length," so to speak. I would really like to have a Druid to turn to when I feel something is so private that I don't want to involve family or friends.
I agree with this. Its also good to remember not everyone has real life buddies who are interested or willing to talk to them about anything other than the weather and what was on TV last night(and some folks may not even have that). There are also those who hide their path from those close, for whatever reason, and it would be nice for them to have an opportunity to talk with someone on topics that are important to them at the time, receiving advice on coping with life they can use. Sometimes the well-meaning acquintance telling you to "seek Jesus" during times of struggle doesn't really help much...and for some, that might be all the encouragement available!


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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby deepwater » 03 Jun 2014, 07:26

Again I think the wordage is getting in our way of thinking about the use of chaplains,,The word chaplains,priest rabi has been associated with a church of one kind or another,,church is not in the atheist way of thinking and so should not come up,,to waste time talking about something you don't like or believe in is a waste of time,,to be tolerant and excepting of a person based on the fact that he or she has feeling or beliefs inherent to them selves should render some type of mutual respect on the soul count that they have that right ,,no matter what or who you believe in,,,Be respectful of all who enter here :shake:
Through my eyes you still see,, Through my heart you still live ,, For as long as i have breath you will sing,,Thanks Mom

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby treegod » 03 Jun 2014, 09:14

The word chaplains,priest rabi has been associated with a church of one kind or another,,church is not in the atheist way of thinking and so should not come up,,
There's plenty of Unitarian Universlaists who are atheists and atheists that go to UU churches. Church can be in the atheist way of thinking. Why do you think it isn't?

Atheists have beliefs and values, and they , like any churchgoer, want to share these with a community (the function of a church) and perhaps even someone chaplain-like that will give them moral support.

Atheists are individuals like anyone else, and there are nuances in atheism. Some reject religion in general, others reject the idea of god/s but might be attracted to other aspects of religion. I don't think they can all be tarred with the same brush of "church is not in the atheist way of thinking".

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Re: The Atheist Druid

Postby deepwater » 03 Jun 2014, 10:19

its the whole word,,the actual word,,the spelling,,the contex,,,atheist,,, what or where dose that word connect with any church service or worship in the forest the Groves we hold sacred,,,atheist,,in its self portrays a non belieaf in any non earthly being,,,its a non topic now,,,you don't believe,,, I do ,,, sooooo you don't matter,,you can sit on a rock and just ,,, BE,,, feel or not,,just be
Through my eyes you still see,, Through my heart you still live ,, For as long as i have breath you will sing,,Thanks Mom


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