Yet another bad experience...

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Aoife
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Yet another bad experience...

Postby Aoife » 06 Sep 2013, 03:30

…with a religious person.

Before I get into this I’d like to say I have nothing against anyone who believes in whatever. I do get annoyed with the ultra-religious that try to push their beliefs on other people though.

I do believe the first commandments is “Keep thy religion to thyself”

…Oh wait, it’s not? That was George Carlin? Oh well.

Yeah, so this friend of my ex-boyfriend…don’t ask me why his friends are still on my Facebook…was going on and on about how humans shouldn’t rely on themselves and just think the way the bible wants them to think. I said “So much for free will.” and that started the whole thing. He seems to think that giving us free will was some kind of temptation. So he starts going on about how he’s praying for me to be saved and about how I’ll be going to hell with all the other non-believers, and not believing in the Christian God was as heinous as murder and all ‘sins’ would be judged equally.

:deadhorse: :deadhorse: :deadhorse:

I told him I had my own belief system and if God can’t differentiate between someone like Hitler and a good person who isn’t a believer then he isn’t a God of love but rather a totalitarian tyrant who has more human tendencies than divine. Either way, if he acts as such he will be no God of mine.

I also quoted Mark Twain, you know, just for fun.

“Go to heaven for the climate, hell for the company”

Here is my own quote:

“I’d rather go to hell with the people I like than go to heaven with the people I hate. That would be hell.” -Me

He started quoting scripture as “the truth” which is great, but it’s only truth for a certain group of people. The thing is, the Bible has been defiled over and over throughout history. It’s been added to or had things taken away from and all for the benefit of the government at the time. Most of the changes were made by the Catholic church and we all know that they had their fingers in everything in Europe for centuries. In my opinion, anything holy about it has been defiled by the greedy hands of men long dead. I’m not saying the book isn’t important, I’m just saying it’s not “as intended” these days. That’s history.

But yeah, he went on about how murder is murder…which didn’t really make sense so I said “You were in the military right? Saw combat. Is what you did back there different than killing someone back here?” and he said “Of course it is. That is in the line of duty” and I said “but murder is murder” and from there things pretty much went circular so I just told him that the conversation was insulting and that I was done. That I had tuned out the second he said that God didn’t differentiate between murder and the non-believing. He kept going. I said the same thing again. He kept going. So I unfriended him. Boring conversation anyway.

:argue: :argue: :argue:

Despite having nothing against it, in my mind, Christianity has the potential to get me riled up. It has nothing to do with the faith itself, it has everything to do with the ‘Jesus-Freaks’ that push their religion on others.

Note: In my mind not all Christians are Jesus-Freaks, just the evangelist sorts that keep pushing when a person clearly isn’t interested.

I think one of the reasons why I get so mad is because I was very active in the church for 17 years. I even went on a missionary trip to Japan when I was 14. I know that stuff. I chose to leave because it ran counter to my morals. I even felt ashamed when I realized what I was an extension to. Upon leaving I felt very liberated.

I realize that paragraph is insulting. I don’t mean it to be. I’m sorry. It just doesn’t work for me and I’m mindful of history. It’s great if people are Christian but keep it to yourself, I keep mine to myself because most people probably don’t want to hear about it.

Nick’s twin has recently moved back to town and she’s really into church. Nick’s family is pretty Christian. He’s basically Christian but he’s very open to the concept of other religions and jokingly says he’s a Pastafarian.

:kissie: :kissie: :kissie:

I don’t think his family is 100% sure that I’m not a Christian…or a Republican. I think they’ve guessed and that’s why there is a certain b.s. tension that is there despite me doing absolutely nothing wrong. Well, besides origin sin. I get along with his mom but she’s not super Christian or anything, I don’t think. The rest of the family…they’re constantly talking about religion and politics…usually statements I disagree with and I have to keep my mouth shut for the sake of being polite. Sometimes I wonder if its a test but I doubt it. If it is I’ll fail it. I also don’t agree with “faking it until I make it”. If we’re gonna be family why should I pretend?

So I wonder if it will be a big deal to them that their son’s one-day-wife isn’t a Christian and our children won’t be raised in the church unless they want to go. I told Nick that if it’s important for him to have his pastor (that he grew up with) to be at our wedding then I’d be cool with that as long as I can get married in nature, which is sacred to me. I’d want it to be either in an oak grove (which is kinda hard to find around here…well a big enough one) or by the ocean.

The whole ‘evangelist’ thing just frustrates me. It’s like “Oh, if you don’t believe in my thing you’re gonna get punished for all eternity”. It’s a sort of fear/guilt tactic that I don’t agree with. I don’t care if it is in the bible. The bible is only the truth to a set group of people. It doesn’t apply to the rest of us and it should be left at that. If it’s the truth for you then that is wonderful, but it’s not for me. It’s not for many people.

I don’t think any religion has the right answer or the wrong answer. I don’t think there is just one answer. I think we all feel the same thing and we just interpret it differently. Maybe pooled all together we could come up with one decent idea. Who knows?

:shake: :shake: :shake:
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Aphritha
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Aphritha » 06 Sep 2013, 14:52

Something that's always made me giggle with a good many Christians is it seems to be more of a social club. When it comes down to it, few of them actually follow their scriptures, and just use it as a mechinism to band together in angry mob form...
So he starts going on about how he’s praying for me to be saved and about how I’ll be going to hell with all the other non-believers, and not believing in the Christian God was as heinous as murder and all ‘sins’ would be judged equally.
Didn't Jesus say "let he who is without sin cast the first stone"? Seems like if he were reading his Bible, this man would know to let Jesus be concerned with this, and buzz off and mind his own business.


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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Bracken » 06 Sep 2013, 15:06

And that's why you're pagans.
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby DJ Droood » 07 Sep 2013, 03:42

And that's why you're pagans.
. I suspect that if neopagans ever reach a critical mass, they will be equally insufferable and dangerous...
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Aphritha
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Aphritha » 07 Sep 2013, 03:56

Any group of people let unbalanced tends to begin to display more of their negative aspects than positive, it seems. Not sure why, just noticed it. Its why I won't live in a neighborhood dominated by one group of people, even if they are my own! Cultural, religious, financial...the factor that places them in a group seems to matter little, the behavior's always similar.


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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby elementalheart » 07 Sep 2013, 09:26

Usually this kind of behaviour comes from a good intention to help you and sort your problems for you as they see it. A fix you don't need or want, but such people are confident in their beliefs and their right ways and are convinced you need persuaded to see the truth as they do.

Christians aren't the only ones to do it, pagans can too - especially when there is a group following a particular way they fervently believe helps them and will therefore help everyone else. Basic misconception of humanity, that one size fits all, there is one truth and once you find it you need to share it whether someone else is interested or not - for their own good.. 8-)

I used to believe that strongly in some things, but my belief in the right to differ was more ingrained in me. Also I often wanted to shake those faith filled souls to see how they were taking power from people, deciding what was right for them and trying to do it for them, fixing them, curing them, making them something else than they were in that moment. Instead of which I had to practise seeing that wanting to knock them off their certainty was the same thing, trying to give them my truth as their own :???: So I found ways to say they had a point and I wasn't in a place to see it that way but thankyou for caring enough to try and help. Some I pushed a little to have faith in their creator to work the mysterious ways etc, or whatever language would express similar to other groups, and meantime I did the same, praying/meditating on letting them be who they were, respecting their belief even though I thought it misplaced and badly expressed.. It's a great exercise in compassion and focus! :wink:
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Bracken » 07 Sep 2013, 15:32

And that's why you're pagans.
. I suspect that if neopagans ever reach a critical mass, they will be equally insufferable and dangerous...
Christians aren't the only ones to do it, pagans can too
I'm sorry. My post was too brief and careless.
What I mean when I posted it was, totally personally to Aoife and Aphritha, 'that's why YOU are pagans', because you believe what you believe, and the other guy believes what he believes. Are you with me?

I promise you, I was not Christian bashing. I have a great respect for Christianity. I can see how my post could easily be misunderstood.

Just wanted to clear that up.
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby DJ Droood » 07 Sep 2013, 15:42


I promise you, I was not Christian bashing.
I was! My main point, though, was the only difference is neopagans don't have the numbers yet to harass or oppress anyone, except maybe the 'fluffy bunnies' they occasionally turn on in a fit of cannibalism.
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Al Hakim
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Al Hakim » 31 Oct 2013, 23:01

By now I do think that all the monotheistic religions are dangerous because one of their central dogmas is to eradicate all others that do not follow the same path. I do not believe that neopagan movements would act like that. The ancient Romans had been masters in incorporating foreign beliefs into their pantheon as long as the foreigners were willing to accept their crucial beliefs, too. The Christians opposed.

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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Explorer » 01 Nov 2013, 08:15

By now I do think that all the monotheistic religions are dangerous because one of their central dogmas is to eradicate all others that do not follow the same path. I do not believe that neopagan movements would act like that. The ancient Romans had been masters in incorporating foreign beliefs into their pantheon as long as the foreigners were willing to accept their crucial beliefs, too. The Christians opposed.
And we all know that those polytheistic open minded pagan Romans where a peace loving and gentle people ;-).
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby ShadowCat » 01 Nov 2013, 08:24

I've given several biblebangers something to think about by first asking them about why they see the bible as truth. They usually come up with "It says in the bible that it is the word of god" and "there are many things in it that are true". I then get out pen and paper and write down the following lines:

1. This is the word of God
2. The grass is green
3. You owe me 100 euro

I tell them I just had a revelation and believe the word of God now and have written down the words that have been divinely revealed to me. I then give them the note and then ask them to pay up. They never do, but no-one has ever been able to explain what the difference between my note and the bible is. Any way, they never come back. :whistle:
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Al Hakim
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Al Hakim » 01 Nov 2013, 12:56

Hi Explorer,

all ancient societies very belligerent but not for religious reasons. Their motives were economical purposes or the extension of their own power, the wish to dominate.

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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Chenzen » 01 Nov 2013, 15:01

I've had many encounters with Christians ( Iive in what's called the "Bible Belt") many see my necklace ( pentagram) or my many tattoos, mixture of Chinese calligraphy and a pentacle. And simply scoff and ask me why I believe in that nonsense. I try being nice however, their tone of voice is usually a mixture of arrogance and higher than thou so I usually just smile and say my piece and allow them to walk away still feeling superior and smug. Except a certain older lady who upon seeing all my nice ink and simply stated "your going to hell with the rest of your kind". Now I just unleashed myself I'd held my tongue long enough. My response was quick and simple. "My people have the courage to stand and die for what they believe in as opposed to the ignorant fools who slaughter entire families with children watching then kill them, then call themselves a pure people" now was this a proper thing to do? No it was filled with hate and malice and everything in between. Am I sorry not at all. In all my years as a pagan I've his in the shadows and never actually shouted to the world how proud I a of my religion. And for once I was able too!! However next time I might try not using foul language :(

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Al Hakim
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Al Hakim » 01 Nov 2013, 16:40

Hi Chenzen,

no harm done, I would guess. Sometimes, after having swallowed humiliation and rage for a while, you explode. Any small remark - usually not even noticed - makes us burst. It is the archetypical warrior in us who has had enough then and blindly strikes back. You don't want to argue in such a situation but destroy. It needs a lifelong time of training in order to react differently, or a Buddha's mind. I myself have not fully mastered that. I found it helpful to mentally anticipate confronting situations and to prepare suitable answers.

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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby DJ Droood » 01 Nov 2013, 19:02

I've had many encounters with Christians ( Iive in what's called the "Bible Belt") many see my necklace ( pentagram) or my many tattoos, mixture of Chinese calligraphy and a pentacle. And simply scoff and ask me why I believe in that nonsense.

I must say, when I hear stories like this, I thank my lucky penny I live in an area of the world where secularism predominates. Religion, much like sexuality, is a personal matter...it is kept out of the workplace, out of the marketplace....there are some Christians around the office...talked to one yesterday and asked if she was expecting many kids for Halloween....she said no, it was a demonic holiday and she was going to Bible study, what about me? I said we were down with the demons and would be handing out candy...we had a laff and went on with our work day...no biggie. It would *not* be an option in our workplace for me to harass her about her beliefs or she about mine. I think it is possible to respect a person, while still thinking their beliefs are absurd. When it comes down to it, beliefs are nothing...they are wind in the leaves...it is how we behave and treat one another that matters. And if we can't do it voluntarily, I support the heavy hand of the state in keeping religion in its place.
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Aphritha
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Aphritha » 02 Nov 2013, 00:03

Am I sorry not at all. In all my years as a pagan I've his in the shadows and never actually shouted to the world how proud I a of my religion. And for once I was able too!! However next time I might try not using foul language :(
Foul language doesn't win many over, but its fun, isn't it. We all crack sometimes.


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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Chenzen » 02 Nov 2013, 07:57

True, being passive-aggressive isn't all that fun but makes for interesting rants

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Re: Gwers 4 - How we view our development

Postby Mountain Lily » 04 Nov 2013, 07:26

I fight fire with fire: I just smile and tell them "See Matthew 6:1-8", and walk away.

In this one, Jesus says (paraphrasing a bit) "Don't be like those hypocrites who make a big show of their personal religion, so that everybody sees how righteous they are. Believe me, they already have their reward. But you, when you pray, go in your room & shut the door."

Works every time. :wink:

That "they already have their reward" bit is a fairly snarky remark on the part of the son of god. :-|

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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby Explorer » 04 Nov 2013, 15:07

Religlion is religion, does it matter if you replace christian labels with pagan labels?
Isn't it just a way to justify Belief in impossible stuff and stick to it? Despite facts, evidence or common sense.
I don't think that pagan 'believers' are less insane than christian 'believers', just less well organized and less abundant. :grin:

Druids can be different. We can learn how to bridge the gap of dualism, how to reconcile the apparent extremes of science and religion, which leads to interesting mystical discoveries.
Unfortunately, most of us seem to miss the point.
:old:
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Re: Yet another bad experience...

Postby ShadowCat » 04 Nov 2013, 15:12

Druids can be different. We can learn how to bridge the gap of dualism, how to reconcile the apparent extremes of science and religion, which leads to interesting mystical discoveries.
Unfortunately, most of us seem to miss the point.
:old:
Interesting statement, could you elaborate a bit?
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the callings of the universe

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