Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum experimen

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Davin Raincloud
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Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum experimen

Postby Davin Raincloud » 03 Jun 2015, 03:57


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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby David Great Bear » 03 Jun 2015, 10:34

Enjoyed the article! I plan to forward it to an Aussie friend :wid: here in town. A question that I have when I read about stuff like this is basically what effect does this have on me? :huh: I get that this is what is happening on the quantum level but what is that saying about what is happening on the "normal" level that I am experiencing every day? :blink: Just something to think about! :thinking:

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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby Davin Raincloud » 03 Jun 2015, 23:32

Hi David,

At this stage, I'm not sure if there is any implications for us, with our consciousness.

But it is interesting! :thinking:

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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby treegod » 04 Jun 2015, 08:49

Reality exists, I reckon, before measurement, but it exists in a way that a) our "Newtonian" brains can't yet imagine and b) our concept and methods of "measurement" aren't adequate enough for the task at hand.

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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby MountainGnome » 05 Jun 2015, 23:12

A question that I have when I read about stuff like this is basically what effect does this have on me?
To me it means a couple of things. For one, science is beginning to take up the deeper questions that religion and spirituality used to have a monopoly on. The other thing is that this is a confirmation of what a lot of esoteric traditions suggest. The Huna tradition in Hawaii holds that we create reality through our imagination (active consciousness), the subconscious, and the cooperation of our "higher self" or "superconscious." Buddhism holds that everything is nothing is "really" real (except possibly suffering -- but I consider that a bit of pessimism), and everything is more or less an illusion that we create for ourselves. Hinduism suggests as much as well, that reality is what we make of it and that all is Brahma, and when we realize the Brahman inside of us, we are in conscious communion with everything else.

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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby DaRC » 08 Jun 2015, 12:01

Ahh but there is a theory now that much of what we view as quantum phenomena can be explained via expanding our view. It's related to how wave patterns behave; with a narrow view you have quantum mechanics, but if the view can be expanded you can see that it's all part of a wave pattern (allegedly - I'm not smart enough to understand the maths)
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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby Sciethe » 27 Oct 2015, 17:11

It's my view that the idea that nothing exists until we make it so by looking at it, the concept that we create the universe as we go along is so ludicrously human centric and arrogant that I can't give it credence. What I can believe is that we make it exist on our terms when we observe/measure it. Maybe "quantum" and its effects can only be observed by humans on human terms as well.

That might explain a number of things, especially the hunger that many have to be the first to see some natural wonder, the act of apparent creation could be a part of the wonder of discovery. Bringing a new thing into the bounds of human understanding- it can't be more than that because many non-human minds observe a new thing before it's experienced by a human for the first time, and objects exist in relationships with one another too.

Take a new planet first discovered by observation of an eccentricity in the movement of another. Then the telescopes are focussed, and the new object is observed for the first time. It had to have been there all along, affecting the planetary motion of the known object. That truth can be extrapolated across the universe. Every atom affects every other in some way, no matter how tiny. The universe "knows" itself already.

The consequence for Druids: the whole universe affects itself, one part with another, and to say that it is our consciousness which brings it into reality is to identify ourselves as gods. Or (in this sense) we could -preferably- understand the universe as the creative deity. I think this demonstrates one of the great boundaries of human existence and comprehension, and is a very important discussion.
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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby malcolmb » 27 Oct 2015, 21:22

It's my view that the idea that nothing exists until we make it so by looking at it, the concept that we create the universe as we go along is so ludicrously human centric and arrogant that I can't give it credence
Sciethe - totally concur.

So, I have my eyes open and lo and behold, I can see my computer screen. I close my eyes. The screen does not exist. Really? I spent a lot of money on that screen. I want it back! I open my eyes. There is the screen. Phew! I close my eyes. No screen. Hang on. I can feel I am sitting in a chair. So, my backside as well as my eyes can create things. Oh Goodie!

How ludicrous.

I am sure with considerable study, I might find some logic in Quantum theory. There must be some logic otherwise hugely intelligent people would not be spending so much time and effort working on it. Mind you, clever people were convinced there were canals on Mars! I think I will spend my time more productively and study my Gwers instead. At least they were written by people who had their feet on the ground, assuming it exists!

So I am off to have a chat with my friendly tree in the quiet confidence that I am sane and the World is mad. Possibly!
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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby Sciethe » 27 Oct 2015, 22:12

So, I have my eyes open and lo and behold, I can see my computer screen. I close my eyes. The screen does not exist. Really? I spent a lot of money on that screen. I want it back! I open my eyes. There is the screen. Phew! I close my eyes. No screen. Hang on. I can feel I am sitting in a chair. So, my backside as well as my eyes can create things. Oh Goodie!
:-) Better put than I ever could. I read this aloud to the adored one.

I said something wrongly I've noticed:
What I can believe is that we make it exist on our terms when we observe/measure it. Maybe "quantum" and its effects can only be observed by humans on human terms as well.
I think that the perspective here could be adjusted thus: Maybe the scientists ARE measuring us "creating" the universe as we look at it. If as I've suggested above the universe itself is responsible for its own continuous realisation then every atom and electron does it, and being part of the universe so do we, and the bits of us including our bottoms. All the scientists now have to realise is that we are not separate from the whole. That it is not their vaunted intellect or human consciousness which is the important factor, but simply the state of being. Things will exist anyway because other things in relation to them do.

And actually -if you think on- that suggests that a lone singularity is an impossibility, it can't exist because it has no reference in time and space, which then become redundant. So the final black hole at the end of all things would... explode? Explains a lot actually.
Sciethe.
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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby Davin Raincloud » 28 Oct 2015, 03:29

Reality doesn't exist until post peer review and publication date in journal. :-)

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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby Whitemane » 28 Oct 2015, 20:08

Another way of looking at this is to consider that something does not exist until it interacts with something else.
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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby Markjones » 28 Oct 2015, 23:58

This makes perfect sense to me, and fits into the world view of Buddhism, Druidry etc.

The problem is that we think human centric. Who is to say aliens have not observed it all before us and defined reality?

Or, more in keeping with how I see things, perhaps beings who have already ascended to higher planes observed and defined the universe? in Buddhism, when you achieve nirvana, you are at one with the universe, existing in non-linier time knowing all existence at once. Perhaps this is how reality is first observed? and thus, defines the universe from the very beginning to the the very end of time.

The truth is, that not only is this an observable phenomenon, but we now have technology that utilises it, i.e. quantum computing. This is not a new theory either. the schrodinger's cat thought experiment articulated this long ago.

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Re: Reality doesn’t exist until we measure it, quantum exper

Postby Porpoise » 15 Nov 2015, 21:32

One theoretical possibility is the quantum multi-verse, where reality splits each time we make a choice. Mind boggling stuff!


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