Toutatis/Teutates information?

This is a forum for serious discussions and debate on Celtic linguistics and other scholarly topics regardic Celtic history and culture. Questions are welcome and those forum members who are knowledgeable in this field will do their best to provide questioners with accurate, verifiable answers or help them locate the answers for themselves. Opinions are welcome also, but it must be made clear that any unreferenced statements are the poster's own opinion and not necessarily historical fact. Be ready to cite sources for any assertions you may make.
Forum rules
If you find a topic of interest and want to continue the discussion then start a new topic under The Hearthfire with a similar name and add a link back to the topic you want to continue.
To copy a link just copy the url on the top left of your browser and then put in your post, highlight it and press the url button.
mrsix
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Jun 2014, 15:01
Gender: Male
Contact:

Toutatis/Teutates information?

Postby mrsix » 12 Aug 2014, 15:24

Hello all,
Guessing this might be the right place for this,
I'm a relatively early stage Bard currently researching a project which takes in the god Toutatis/Teutates (shortened to Tot, Tout or in some cases Tor) , a Celtic localised tribal protector who was Romanised with his equivalent somewhere between Mars and Mercury.
The problem I've got is the only real sources of information I've found so far are Lucan, who put him in some sort of a Trinity with Esus and Tanaris, and a few later sources which no doubt get their views from interpreting the very few depictions we have of him. These other sources seem to think the depictions show Toutatis sacrificing humans in a vat of burning oil (though you could look at it from a non-Romanised viewpoint and see him dipping the frail into a cauldron and making in them into soldiers again)
The only other instance of him popping up seem to be archaeological finds over quite a large section of Britain and France but mainly concentrated in the Coritani tribe (Lincolnshire) area of generally silver rings engraved (sometimes crudely) with the name TOT. No shrines or evidence of wider worship have ever been discovered (to my knowledge) and research done with the aid of a friend at the British Museum doesn't seem to be adding any more to the gaps.

Does anyone have any light they could shed on him?
Myths, facts, legends are all equally welcome :-)

S.:

User avatar
DaRC
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 4511
Joined: 06 Feb 2003, 17:13
Gender: Male
Location: Sussex
Contact:

Re: Toutatis/Teutates information?

Postby DaRC » 14 Aug 2014, 12:14

With Toutatis, as his name probably means Tribal Protector or ancestor, I think it's worth looking at the other tribal protectors we know of amongst the Northern Tribes. So you can look at the Dagda and I would also suggest Beli / Belenus.

However, I also think there was much more flow via trade of people & ideas between the tribes in what we see as the Celtic & Germanic worlds. So when Lucan mentions Toutatis (a kind of All-father), Esus (Lord) and Taranis (the Thunderer) it is interesting to note that the ancient Viking shrine at Uppsala almost 1000 years later had 3 deities represented: Odin the All-father, Thor the Thunderer and Freyr (whose name means Lord).

The thing with gods like Toutatis is that there is just snippets of historical and archaeological evidence.

Edit PS - Teutates is also the root of the name Teutonic so it's also worth looking at Tuisto...
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tuisto
Most dear is fire to the sons of men,
most sweet the sight of the sun;
good is health if one can but keep it,
and to live a life without shame. (Havamal 68)
http://gewessiman.blogspot.co.uk Image

mrsix
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 4
Joined: 25 Jun 2014, 15:01
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: Toutatis/Teutates information?

Postby mrsix » 18 Aug 2014, 16:37

Thanks, will look into it.
:-)

User avatar
greygreen
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 60
Joined: 12 Oct 2012, 21:13
Gender: Male
Location: Texas
Contact:

Re: Toutatis/Teutates information?

Postby greygreen » 19 Aug 2014, 17:17

This may be a red herring, but the spelling reminded me of huge Teutons, a people who Rome encountered in the late republic. Their ethnic origins have been debated but they certainly had Gaulish influence given their proximity. I wonder if your Teutates has any ties to the tribe called the Teutons?
Sometimes, if you stand on the bottom rail of a bridge and lean over to watch the river slipping slowly away beneath you, you will suddenly know everything there is to be known. - A.A. Milne

Image


Return to “Celtic Studies”

Who is online

Users browsing this forum: No registered users and 2 guests