Welsh Speaking Druids...

Subforum for Welsh language studies and posts.
Gus
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Postby Gus » 15 Jul 2006, 01:47

Yes, Cariad. As well as the underlying feeling that the current Welsh druid order is simply a result of the opiated dreams of a maveric stone-mason;.
Actually theres a lot of evidence what iolo wrote had a basis in real manuscripts not just his imagination.

Ysgawen
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Welsh - you dont need to go it alone

Postby Ysgawen » 19 Jul 2006, 20:02

Sut mae,
I feel for you. I live in Boston, which, although being very Celtic and having more Irish pubs than Dublin, doesn’t have much of a Welsh representation. I had been trying to learn the language on my own for a while, but was becoming frustrated (it's just no fun when the only person to talk to is your own reflection). I had no luck even finding a private tutor, so I decided to try something different. I posted messages on craigslist.com that I wanted to start a Welsh language study group and asked if anyone else out there might want to join in. I very soon received many responses. There are now 7 of us who ended up forming a group and we met every other week using books and audio materials readily available on the market. It's worked out terrific. You should try starting one in your own neck of the woods. It means you’re on your own, and have to be diligent, but it's also great fun and doesnt cost much. We are using July Brake's "Teach Yourself Welsh - Complete Course Audiopackage" since it has great ratings and is easily available thru Amazon.com. Give it a try. "Dyfal donc a dyr a garred" (steady tapping breaks the stone).

pob lwc!

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~*Blackbird*~
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Postby ~*Blackbird*~ » 27 Jul 2006, 13:13

Helo,siaradwyr Cymraeg yma!Dydy'r dduwiau heb anghofio'r iaith-dim ond y bobl rwy'n ofni! :( Mae'n ardderchog i ffeindio forum efo Cymraeg yn gael ei siarad.Rwy'n dod o deulu sy'n siarad Saesneg ac ers gadael ysgol mae'n anodd cael y cyfle i ymarfer fy iaith.Ond yn dweud hynny,rwy nawr at brifysgol Aberystwyth lle mae na lawer mwy o bobl lleol yn siarad Cymraeg-mae gen i gwpl o ffrindiau i siarad Cymraeg efo nawr.Hefyd mae gen i ffrind yn dod o Manceinion ac ers mis medi mae e wedi bod yn ddysgu oddi wrthaf-gallaf cael sgwrs da efo fe nawr efo ambell camgymeriad a gair Saesneg ond mae e'n arbennig o dda ac rwy mor bles!Mae e hefyd eisiau dysgu chwarae'r delyn-mae ganddo galon celtaidd!!:)

for the benefit of non-speakers:
(Hello Welsh speaker here!The gods haven't forgotten the language-only the people I fear :( It's excellent to find a forum with Welsh being spoken.I come from an English speaking family and since leaving school it's  hard to get a chance to practice my language.But saying that,I'm now at Aberystwyth uni where there are a lot more local people speaking Welsh-I have  few friends to speak Welsh with now.I also have a friend from Manchester who,from September has been learning Welsh from me-I can have a good conversation with him now with a few mistakes and a few english words but he's amazingly good and I'm so pleased!He also wants to learn the harp-he has such a celtic heart!!)

Anyway,yeah I'm new here so hello everyone!I'll leave my intro for somewhere more appropriate :P

Take care

Sam
~*Efo can yn fy ysbryd,a'r heniaeth yn fy ngwaed,rwy'n byw bywyd llawn efo calon Celtaidd*~

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Postby Megli » 01 Aug 2006, 11:18

helo sam! neis i gwrdd a ti. dysgwr dw i, o Gaergaint yn wreiddiol.
dw i ddim y gallu siarad cymraeg yn rhugl eto, ond dw i'n mynd i'r eisteddfod cenedlaethol yn abertawe wythos nesa - llawer o ymarfer yna, gobeithio! (fydd rhaid 'da fi mod yn feddw...). Yn anffodus, dw i'n siarad cymraeg canol yn well no Chymraeg cyfoes (ydw i wedi anghofio y treiglad cywir yna? dw i ddim yn siwr) ond dw i'n addysgu llenyddiaeth canoloesol Cymreig at oedolion yn yr prifysgol fan hyn yn rhydychen.
bendithion
mark
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~*Blackbird*~
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Postby ~*Blackbird*~ » 01 Aug 2006, 13:26

Aww I love you all!It's great to see so many people showing interest in Welsh! :D

Helo Megli :D Rwy wedi ateb eich neges-wedi anfon PM i chi.Edrych ymlaen wrth glywed ohonoch!
Er eich bod yn ddweud bod chi ddim yn rhygl eto,mae'ch Gymraeg yn dda dros ben!Hoffwn i mynd i'r Eisteddfod ond mae gen i arholiadau cyn bo hir :( Mi gewch chi ddigon o gyfle i siarad Cymraeg yna yn siwr!(Mae'ch dreigliad yn gywir da iawn :) )
Mae addysgu yn meddwl 'to teach' -wyt ti'n meddwl astudio-'studying'?Ac mae 'at' yn meddwl 'to'-falle bod chi'n meddwl 'am'-'for adults'?
:D Da iawn Megli,rwyn balch ohonoch!(ac wrth gwrs,pawb sy'n dangos ymdrech i siarad Cymraeg!)

(for the benefit of non-speakers)
Even though you say you aren't fluent yet,your Welsh is very good!I'd like to go to the Eisteddfod but I have exams soon.You'll have plenty of chance to speak Welsh there for sure!(Your mutation is correct well done)
Addysgu means 'to teach'-do you mean to say astudio-'studying'?And 'at' means 'to'-maybe you mean 'am'-'for adults'?
Well done Megli,I'm proud of you! (and of course,everyone for their efforts of speaking Welsh!)


Bendithion mwyaf ddisglair i chi gyd, Brightest blessings to you all,

Sam
~*Efo can yn fy ysbryd,a'r heniaeth yn fy ngwaed,rwy'n byw bywyd llawn efo calon Celtaidd*~

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~*Blackbird*~
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Postby ~*Blackbird*~ » 01 Aug 2006, 13:37

A Megli!Rwy wedi edrych ar bost arall a wedi sylwi bod chi wedi dweud "I teach Medieval Welsh" felly ry'ch chi'n iawn wrth ddweud "addysgu"!Bydd rhaid i chi newid yr "at" i "i" (to) er mwyn ddweud "addysgu llenyddiaeth canoloesol Cymreig i oedolion..." Mae "at" yn meddwl "at" yn Saesneg (eithaf syml lol).

Mae'n ddrwg gen i :P Dim ond trio helpu oeddwn ond mae'n edrych petai chi'n bell wrth angen gormod o help rwyn credu! hehe

Sam

p.s baswn i'n hoffi gweld tipyn o Gymraeg ganoloesol-diddorol iawn i weld sut mae'r iaeth wedi progresu dros y flynyddoedd!Ydych chi wedi ddarllen "Y Gododdin" gan Aneurin?Mae'n dod o'r chweched ganrif ond yn cael ei nodi mewn "Llyfr Aneurin" o'r 13 ganrif.Astudiaes darn ohono mewn ysgol am TGAU Cymraeg (GCSE)
~*Efo can yn fy ysbryd,a'r heniaeth yn fy ngwaed,rwy'n byw bywyd llawn efo calon Celtaidd*~

Megli
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Postby Megli » 28 Aug 2006, 16:18

Dim broblem!
a dw i'n addysgu Llyfr Aneirin hefyd! Mae 'na fersiwn da wedi ei gyhoeddu gan Wasg Landysul, gyda'r hen destyn yn orthograffi cymraeg gyfoes a  wedi ei gyfiethu i Saesneg.

Greddf gwr, oed gwas... tumti tumti etc....!

Mae Hen Gymraeg yn anodd iawn!

I could post the first section with a linguistic commentary if you're interested in how the language has changed....?

Hwyl fawr!

m

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~*Blackbird*~
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Postby ~*Blackbird*~ » 28 Aug 2006, 23:20

Ie bydd hwnna'n gret!O'n i'n hoffi astudio'r cerdd-er bod dim ond un pennill wnaethom-rhy hir i'w gofio am arholiad!!

Diolch!

Bendithion cynnes,
Sam
~*Efo can yn fy ysbryd,a'r heniaeth yn fy ngwaed,rwy'n byw bywyd llawn efo calon Celtaidd*~

Megli
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Postby Megli » 30 Aug 2006, 15:52

Helo! Dyma'r pennill cynta o'r 'Gododdin' gan Aneirin. Mi gyfiethies i'r testyn i saesneg.

This is the first elegy of the poem, for Owain the son of Marro, at the Battle of Catraeth c.630.

Gredyf gwr oed gwas
Gredyf, ModW 'greddf' has idea of vigour or energy: it's related to the word gwraidd, 'root'.

'oed' in Medival Welsh spelling would normally = Mod W 'oedd', but here it does genuinely seem to represent Mod W 'oed', as in 'oedran', age.

So; 'Vigour of a man, age of a lad' (gwas, from British *vassos)

Gwrhyt am dias
Gwrhyt is related to the word 'gwr', 'man' - so 'manliness, bravery'

'dias' is 'battle' (Y Gododdin is full of battle words for obvious reasons)
So 'Courage for combat'

Meirch mwth myngvras
Lit: 'horses, swift, thick-maned'

A dan vordwyt megyrwas
'a dan' would be 'y dan' in later middle welsh: 'under'
vordwyt - 'thigh'

mygyrwas' - compound of mygr 'glittering, noble' with gwas 'lad'
So 'under the noble lad's thigh'.

Phew! More later! (if no one's interested tell me to stop).

In vigour a man, in years a youth,
courage in combat;
swift, thick-maned horses
under the noble lad's thigh...


Mark

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Elfina
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Postby Elfina » 30 Aug 2006, 23:13

Diolch Megli am eich gwaith caled yn wneud hyn i ni gyd.

Rwyn darllen gyda diddordeb.


Ruth
Ruth Raymer - Still learning life's lessons
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~*Blackbird*~
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Postby ~*Blackbird*~ » 01 Sep 2006, 18:58

Arbennig o dda diolch Megli!

I can understand the jist of it by the few words still used today-that's really amazing considering how ancient this poem is!Absolutely fascinating.

Plis gawn ni rhagor Megli?!Please may we have more?!

:D

Sam
~*Efo can yn fy ysbryd,a'r heniaeth yn fy ngwaed,rwy'n byw bywyd llawn efo calon Celtaidd*~

Megli
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Postby Megli » 04 Sep 2006, 14:01

O'r gore! Dw i'n hapus bo pobol fan hyn yn mwynhau y pethe 'na o hen farddoniaeth. Nawr....ble mae gweddil y pennill....mae nhy yn llanast...!

Ah. Dyma ni...

This continues the lament for Owain mab Marro.


Ysgwyt ysgauyn lledan
'a broad light shield'  - not sure 'ysgwyd' makes it into Modern Welsh? It's not the same as the verb 'to shake' btw. Yscwyd comes from Latin scutum, which a prosthetic y- on the front, which was commonly attached to borrowed words that began with s-, in exactly the same way that Vulgar Latin 'scola' 'school' gives Welsh 'ysgol' not '**sgol'.

'Ysgauyn' is spelled 'ysgafn' in Mod.W.

Ar bedrein mein vuan
'upon the crupper of a slim, swift [horse]'

Kledyuawr glas glan
the -awr here is a very archaic plural. 'bright/pure/clean blue blades'

Ethy eur aphan
'ethy' is some kind of garment.
'aphan' was a mystery for a long time until some genius dialectologist noticed that there was a Breconshire (I think) dialect term for the tassels on the edge of a blanket, 'affan', so the line means 'a garment, gold-bordered.'

Ny bi ef a vi

This line has been garbled and needs emendation, as does another later on. The bi has to be emended to bu, which would be pronounced the same in later Welsh. 'It has never been that there will be' = 'It has never been the case that there will be'

Cas e rof a thi
'emnity between me and you.'

(Note how the poet introduces himself into the poem, in his role as praise-singer.) The e is archaic - it wd be y in later Middle Welsh.

Gwell gwneif a thi
'better will I treat you [than that]'

Ar wawt dy uoli

'by means of [lit: 'for'] a poem praising you.'
Gwawt is an interesting word, being cognate with the irish word 'faith' (with an acute accent on the a) which means 'prophet', and so with the word 'vate', or its corruption, 'ovate'. So it means 'prophetic poetry', then 'poetry in general' and its meaning has narrowed in later welsh to mean 'satrical poetry, scorn, satire'.


'A broad light shield
On a slim steed's crupper,
bright blue blades,
Gold-bordered garments.
Never will there be
emnity between us:
I will treat you better,
through song in your praise.'

So there we go! More later.

M /|\

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~*Blackbird*~
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Postby ~*Blackbird*~ » 05 Sep 2006, 16:58

:D ardderchog eto.

I'm loving this it's so interesting and fascinating.If not for the crazy spelling and the few archaic words it'd be easier to understand as it's pretty similar to Modern Welsh.

Just one thing-"Kledyuawr glas glan" Up in the North "glaswellt"  means grass (whereas it's "gwair" down in the south).This I was told was because "glas" originally meant "green" in older Welsh ("glaswellt" lit.tran.=green straw)It also means grey or pale.Dunno what do you say Megli?

Keep it coming it's great-I'm sending it in an email to my friend who loves the language as i know he'd really be fascinate it and would appreciate it aswell.

Sam
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Megli
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Postby Megli » 05 Sep 2006, 17:07

Hi! colour words are a bit odd in lots of languages, including the celtic ones: in MW, 'glas' can be greeny, bluey, or greyish. So your explanation of glaswellt is quite correct - it's maddening having to deal with colour words that don't correspond to  english exactly! ('gorm' in Irish is just the same: sort of bluey, sort of greyish...) When MW writers want to imply leaf-green they usually used gwyrdd, which comes from Latin viridis, 'green'. That seems to imply a bright, springlike green, whereas 'glas' is a bit darker in tone, shading into blue, hence you can use it of the colour of steel.

:)
M /|\

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~*Blackbird*~
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Postby ~*Blackbird*~ » 05 Sep 2006, 17:11

Blimey Megli that was a fast reply! lol

Thanks for your explanation-cleared it up for me nice :D

Diolch!

Sam
~*Efo can yn fy ysbryd,a'r heniaeth yn fy ngwaed,rwy'n byw bywyd llawn efo calon Celtaidd*~

Megli
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Postby Megli » 05 Sep 2006, 17:22

lol roedd fy ateb yn gyflym achos dw i'n ar y we pnawn 'ma! Does dim byd i wneud fan hyn gartre heddi. :(
M /|\

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Heddwen
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Re: Welsh Speaking Druids...

Postby Heddwen » 13 Nov 2010, 17:33

...Do they actually exist? Or are they confined to the annals of history and to the Christian Gorsedd Beirdd Ynys Prydain? If not then where the hell are they all!

When one considers that the inspiration of modern Druidry stems from the Chronicles, texts, mythology of the Welsh, yet we have the smallest numbers of native speaking Druids...get this....in the whole wide world!! What's going on there I wonder?

I have been a practising Awenydd for the best part of 16 years now, and run a very small Order on Anglesey, I am the only Welsh speaker there, we are ocassionaly visited by another native, but for the best part I'm the only one. In 12 years of running a grove I have yet to be approached by another fellow Welsh speaker. Its a mystery...

Tybed fod y rhai Cymraeg yn cuddio mewn cornelai ym mhlith carnau Eryri. Oh i gallu fod mewn defod lle 'mond y Cymraeg a ddefnyddiai, i feddwl ers talwm y Cymraeg a cod o wefysau'r hen bobl mewn defodau tymhyrol a hydol, i ymestyn drwy'r mynyddoedd i glustiau'r duwaiau. Tybed erbyn hyn fod y Duwiau wedi anghoffio'r iaith!

Dewch Cymry, dewch allan, dewch allan lle bynneg y boch!!

Bendithion cynnes y tymor,
Kris /|\

S'mai Kris,

I, too have pondered over this. The people that I know of tend to be in clusters in the North and South of Wales or on the border. Some of the locals have taken the Bardic course but don't practise as such anymore. I can't believe that in this vast country there is no one else about, especially in the middle!

C'mon where are you?! :where: :grin:

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Kris
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Re: Welsh Speaking Druids...

Postby Kris » 26 Nov 2010, 19:23

I believe that they are still in hiding as it was 2006 when I frist started this thread!

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Heddwen
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Re: Welsh Speaking Druids...

Postby Heddwen » 26 Nov 2010, 20:28

That makes two of us then :grin:

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Peter Freeman
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Re: Welsh Speaking Druids...

Postby Peter Freeman » 27 Nov 2010, 15:36

That is interesting. I didn't realize there are so few Welsh speakers in OBOD. I didn't join, didn't know about OBOD, until I came to America. Strange that.
Still, for the record, I'm a native Welsh speaker. I noticed one of the posts said that Welsh has a different word for "Grass" depending on whether you live in the North or the South. May I beg to differ, as an old farm boy, Welsh has different words for grass, that's all;
Grass in general is glaswellt singular glaswelltyn as the old Welsh hymn goes "Dyddiau dyn sydd fel glaswelltyn" The days of man are as a blade of grass However grass that the cattle graze is called "Borfa" and then when the grass is harvested in bales it is called "gwair" Those are words used in the north and south.
Incidentally, I'm from Llanelli on the south coast.
Pleasure to meet you all.
Save the Earth it's the only place with chocolate.


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