Welsh Speaking Druids...

Subforum for Welsh language studies and posts.
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Kris
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Welsh Speaking Druids...

Postby Kris » 15 May 2006, 12:23

...Do they actually exist? Or are they confined to the annals of history and to the Christian Gorsedd Beirdd Ynys Prydain? If not then where the hell are they all!

When one considers that the inspiration of modern Druidry stems from the Chronicles, texts, mythology of the Welsh, yet we have the smallest numbers of native speaking Druids...get this....in the whole wide world!! What's going on there I wonder?

I have been a practising Awenydd for the best part of 16 years now, and run a very small Order on Anglesey, I am the only Welsh speaker there, we are ocassionaly visited by another native, but for the best part I'm the only one. In 12 years of running a grove I have yet to be approached by another fellow Welsh speaker. Its a mystery...

Tybed fod y rhai Cymraeg yn cuddio mewn cornelai ym mhlith carnau Eryri. Oh i gallu fod mewn defod lle 'mond y Cymraeg a ddefnyddiai, i feddwl ers talwm y Cymraeg a cod o wefysau'r hen bobl mewn defodau tymhyrol a hydol, i ymestyn drwy'r mynyddoedd i glustiau'r duwaiau. Tybed erbyn hyn fod y Duwiau wedi anghoffio'r iaith!

Dewch Cymry, dewch allan, dewch allan lle bynneg y boch!!

Bendithion cynnes y tymor,
Kris /|\

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Art
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Postby Art » 15 May 2006, 16:05

You raise a good question Kris and I think you have every reason to feel the frustration expressed in your note. At the same time I know there are a number of native Welsh speakers in OBOD a few of whom do frequent this board and perhaps your participation here will help facilitate contact with some of those folks who have themselves wondered where the Welsh speaking Druids were hiding.

At the same time this forum reflects a growing appreciation for the fundamental poetic truths woven within the Welsh language. Certainly some are mildly curious while others are quite serious about developing a language skill that will allow them to comprehend.  Obviously the participation and guidance of native speakers is vital to the success of Welsh learners here.

Thank you for speaking out and for being here!
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Postby Badger Bob » 15 May 2006, 19:41

And there are some of us who are learning Cymraeg but as yet are pretty bloody useless...dysgwyr nerfus ydw i as they say in the Teach Yourself book!

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Postby Gwilym Goch » 16 May 2006, 00:34

S'mai Kris?
Dwi wedi bod yn meddwl yr union beth ers hydoedd. Er cymryd rhan mewn nifer fawr o draddodiadau o wledydd pell, mae pob un yn dod a fi adref i Gymru. I fod yn honest dwi mwy neu lai wedi cael fy ngorfodi i 'ymarfer' neu i 'ddilyn' fy llwybr ar y tir yma. Mae'r awenyddion Cymraeg allan yna, dwi wedi darllen cerddi a gwrando ar ganeuon gan llawer ohonynt. Yr unig beth ydi nad oes ganddynt draddodiad brodorol i'w harwain drwy fywyd ysbrydol, felly tydyn nhw ddim yn ystyried eu hunain yn 'Dderwyddon', ond mae'r ymdeimlad cynhenid o fod yn rhan o ysbryd y tir hwn yn canu'n eglur drwyddynt.

Fyse gin i ddiddordeb ymweld a chi yn Sir Fon rhywbryd. Dwi'n siwr fydd gyno ni ddigon i sgwrsio yn ei gylch. Elli di ddanfon neges breifat i mi hefo manylion cysylltu?

Diolch

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Postby Claer » 16 May 2006, 10:07

And there are some of us who are learning Cymraeg but as yet are pretty bloody useless...dysgwyr nerfus ydw i as they say in the Teach Yourself book!
And there are those of us even a step further behind that Badger Bob - I'm at the completely and utterly useless point.
I wanted to try and learn Welsh when I was at uni in Bangor, but my other studies meant I couldn't afford the time :-(
I'm now at the point of just starting (hence no attempt to try and type Welsh here). This is a bit daunting, as I am not confident at languages.
Claer /|\
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Kris
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Postby Kris » 16 May 2006, 15:22

Hey Guys,
Thanks for replying, its encouraging to hear of those learnig tha language, perhaps one day we may well see several native speakers and learners gathered to together and celebrating and honouring our ancient tongue.

gwilym, diolch am dy ymated, ma' neges ar ei ffordd i ti rwan.

Kris /|\

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Postby Cariad » 17 May 2006, 12:56

hello Kris  :)

dwi'n dysgu Cymraeg - mae'r teulu mam yn siarad cymraeg. But writing I'm not very good at yet. (or speaking! )

It's an interesting point, not sure I have any coherent thoughts on lack of Welsh speakers,but I have thought of it. Maybe there's a lot of suspicion and misunderstandings of what it's all about?

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Postby Gwilym Goch » 17 May 2006, 21:33

Yes, Cariad. As well as the underlying feeling that the current Welsh druid order is simply a result of the opiated dreams of a maveric stone-mason; therefore something to be discarded as a fantasy by most. Saying that, many very fine poets within the order and in the literary scene in general have expressed spiritual values which are similar to those found in the wider field of global druidry. I heard a discussion on BBC Radio Cymru recently where an older memeber of the poetic community was having a go at the new generation of unrully poets making use of erotic and 'disgusting' imagery and themes. His basic point was that such poetry was a perversion of the holy Awen which was a gift from God. I don't totally agree with him but his general metaphysic is interesting.

As an example: the Bowen brothers were fine 'pagan' christians. Both wrote some of the best poems of the middle of the 20th century. Some claim Euros Bowen is as great as Dafydd ap Gwilym (which is like comparing someone to Shakespeare or Keats).  Geraint Bowen was Archdruid for some time last century and his autobiography is called 'O Groth y Ddaear' (From the Womb of the Earth). His brother Euros wrote some of the most spiritually exhilirating poetry of the last century, braking new ground by combining the traditional <i>cynghanedd</i> forms with <i>verse libre</i>. He was an anglican priest (funnily enough) that saw God present in the world, and indistinguishable from it. No division of subjest and object. A true spiritual visionary.

I could go on to name many other individuals who have expressed ideas we would have an interest in. Druidry, or its flavour, is still present within Welsh culture, you just have to know where, and how, to look.

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Postby Miranda » 19 May 2006, 02:15

Hi!  :hiya:  I've been trying to learn Cymraeg for a while now, but have been having trouble finding the time. :read:  Ryd wi'n siarad Cymraeg tippin bach. Did I spell that right? Well anyway, I'm going to start again. I think that it's a beautiful language. Wish me luck! Diolch!

Miranda

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Postby Arth Seren » 23 May 2006, 21:59

Hi Guys,

I'm on a mission to learn welsh although I've not started yet - I don't really know how to start, lol.

My goal is to do my Bardic Grove ritual in Welsh - I know that's a bit ambitious but it's something to work towards.
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Postby Igrewl » 29 May 2006, 07:29

Hi Guys,

I'm on a mission to learn welsh although I've not started yet - I don't really know how to start, lol.
Bore da Igrewl ydw i

http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/catchphrase/ ... ons1.shtml

Give this a shot, it's a bit dated but there are 144 lessons and it's free.
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Postby Arth Seren » 29 May 2006, 14:16

Igrewl,

Thank you so much for this link, it's pretty much what I'm looking for. It reminds me of my french lessons at school where you listen and repeat. I'll enjoy this.

Thank you again.

Blessings
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Postby Ailim » 04 Jun 2006, 12:35

I've wanted to learn Welsh for some time, but am hopeless at getting my tongue around the pronounciation.  This has tripped me up a number of times when doing ritual so that I end up just using English.  I think the rolling lilt of Welsh or Scottish and Irish Gaelic adds to the sacredness of ritual, if you know what I mean.

I've been to the BBC site, last year, but didn't get past the first couple of lessons.  I've just done a Google for "welsh language" and found the following link that looked interesting and within 15 minutes have already learned that a dog is Ci and a cat is Cath :)

http://www.therosettastone.co.uk/en/off ... ge=cym&a=b

However, before I spend any money, and time, could someone please point me to the best method or Welsh courses?

Thanks  :where:
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Postby Igrewl » 05 Jun 2006, 05:43

[quote="However, before I spend any money, and time, could someone please point me to the best method or Welsh courses?"[/quote]

Rosetta Stone CD is good but expensive for what you get to be honest. If you couldnt get through the free BBC ones, then I suspect the Rosetta online courses would a bit of a waste as it's basically the same learning technique (and of course it's not free either)
Depending where you are in the world you can usually find a Welsh speaking group/or indivdual that will assist with conversation and I've personally found this the most beneficial method of learning the spoken word. If you are in the UK I suggest you try doing a home correspondance GCSE in welsh for written work
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Ailim
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Postby Ailim » 05 Jun 2006, 15:40

Thanks, I'll consider your suggestion about a qualification, though the last time I went to school there wasn't such a thing as a GCSE :)
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Postby Unikorn » 06 Jun 2006, 13:55

Also, there are Welsh speaking OBOD peoples that I know who live in Cymru but don't use the internet like this....we had a superb time at Camp while I was there realising how we could do the calls for the morning meeting in ALL the Celtic languages.  

So YES - I know of at least four Welsh speaking Druids off the top of my head.... and doesn't our Chosen Chief have some use of the language????
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Postby Moondragon » 07 Jun 2006, 00:01

Hi Ailim,  
        I did a  night class at our local college to learn Welsh (well try)

The books and tapes we used were very good and easy to use/understand they were called Dosbarth Nos by Helen Prosser and Nia Parry              ISBN: 1860854222 .

Hope this helps    
                     :)

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Postby Ailim » 08 Jun 2006, 10:47

Thanks MoonDragon :)
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Postby Cariad » 08 Jun 2006, 23:56

Hi I have done an 'WLPAN' course which is more intensive than Dosbarth Nos (and possibly better organised?) There's even a soap opera! There is one version for North Wales and one for South, i believe organised by the University of Aberystwyth. Also you may find day courses, week courses....Aberystwyth do summer courses, if you have the time..

hi Gwilym, I think you're right about how culture being there, I think it's just what people think druids are (even my mam was embarrassed when i told her i was doing this but when I showed her the nice a4 poster from OBOD she said  we were that anyway!). In Pennal, near Machynlleth, I believe there's a priest who seems definitely into a different type of Christianity. There is a little lady chapel and I can't remember what else, but he seemed to be able to use the old power of the land with his Christian beliefs (it looked great to me). There was a Welsh poet from the middle ages who was actually quite bawdy, I believe? Can't remember his name,

Interesting, how if you describe some of the things you might believe as a druid (caring for the land eg) people would have no problem, but i definitely feel if I were to tell my new neighbours I was doing a course in druidry I certainly feel they'd react differently...

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Postby Stohornugle » 09 Jun 2006, 22:36

Trying to learn as well using the BBC stuff it's a slow job.


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