Welsh World Creation Myth

Subforum for Welsh language studies and posts.
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BronzDragonfly
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Welsh World Creation Myth

Postby BronzDragonfly » 23 Jun 2016, 18:38

I’m looking for Cymræg and related stories of the origins of the world at large. While I get a feeling it’s an emergence motif, I’m not finding anything that directly tells that story.

A part of why I’m looking into this is to place Cymræg myth into the Velikovsky framework.

Much appreciate.
May the Peace of the Forest teach you to be strong as we stand heart to heart, and shoulder to shoulder
No Other World:

Thom “Mormhran” Potter, Bard


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Heddwen
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Re: Welsh World Creation Myth

Postby Heddwen » 23 Jun 2016, 22:03

I’m looking for Cymræg and related stories of the origins of the world at large. While I get a feeling it’s an emergence motif, I’m not finding anything that directly tells that story.

A part of why I’m looking into this is to place Cymræg myth into the Velikovsky framework.

Much appreciate.

Hey welcome here BronzDragonfly :shake:

You may find this of some interest ... http://www.angleseydruidorder.co.uk/cre ... 4583614560

with many Blessings,

Heddwen :hiya:

Maienfalke
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Re: Welsh World Creation Myth

Postby Maienfalke » 28 Jun 2016, 07:35

Thanks for this Link, Heddwen! Dave the Bard is just great. :-)

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Heddwen
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Re: Welsh World Creation Myth

Postby Heddwen » 28 Jun 2016, 07:45

Thanks for this Link, Heddwen! Dave the Bard is just great. :-)
You're very welcome! :shake:

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BronzDragonfly
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Re: Welsh World Creation Myth

Postby BronzDragonfly » 08 Jul 2016, 19:09

You may find this of some interest ... http://www.angleseydruidorder.co.uk/cre ... 4583614560


I can appreciate Damh’s poetry, and expect what he presents is based on antiquity. I think, however, I failed to be clear. My question is based on the theories presented by Immanuel Velikovsky, of a time when the solar system was rather different from what it is today.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=t7EAlTcZFwY

I do believe the story of Ceridwn and Taliesin are bound up in those events, largely because of the transformations they go through before the finish, especially with the conflict between Ceridwn (Venus) and Gwion (Mars).

I appreciate your help.
May the Peace of the Forest teach you to be strong as we stand heart to heart, and shoulder to shoulder
No Other World:

Thom “Mormhran” Potter, Bard


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Green Raven
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Re: Welsh World Creation Myth

Postby Green Raven » 09 Jul 2016, 10:19

One of the central quests of most druidic practice is the pursuit of truth and one of the things I love about the Welsh and Irish tales is their lack of a creation myth, although I have seen various passages posited as stubs of a creation story. Plenty of ‘origins’ tales of peoples and families but the land, in the mind of the ancients, seems to have always been and will always be, with its wild places and fertile cleared plains. Would it were so.
“Listen, O little pig! are not the buds of thorns
Very green, the mountain beautiful, and beautiful the earth?”
- Myrddin Wyllt, Hoianau / Greetings (to a Pig)

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Tracy G
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Re: Welsh World Creation Myth

Postby Tracy G » 18 Jul 2016, 14:34

Llyfr Taliesin (the Book of Taliesin, Peniarth MS 2) specifically references the planets in Kanu y Gwynt (the wind poem) and Kanu y Byt Mawr (the greater song of the world). Llyfr Du Caerfyrddin (the Black Book of Carmarthen, Peniarth MS 1) mentions the "fountain of Venus" in a poem about Seithenyn and the drowning of Cantref Gwaelod. Mike Harris conjectured in his 1999 book Awen: The Quest of the Celtic Mysteries that the Black Book material may offer support for Velikovsky's rather unique ideas about the formation of the solar system. I did not find Harris' arguments to be convincing, but to each his own.

If you're seeking an extended planetary allegory in the Welsh literature, you may have better luck with the Second Branch of the Mabinogi, as opposed to the Gwion Bach tale in the Hanes Taliesin. I suggest starting with the following character correspondences, and see where these take you:

Manawydan = Mercury
Branwen = Venus
Efnisien = Mars
Nisien = Jupiter
Bran = Saturn

For what it's worth, when I did that, and when I next proceeded to compare the narrative of the Second Branch with the motions of the planets over 11th and 12th-century Wales (as simulated by the freeware program Stellarium), I found a number of matches for alignments that took place specifically in the early 1140s. My speculation is that the original author of the Mabinogi exemplar had access to astrological charts from those years. If so, those appear to be no longer extant, but they would have been in the same time frame, at least, as the ten surviving horoscopes from medieval England that were made in 1123–1160.
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“For nothing here should be taken to mean that we are merely researching the past. To find the sounder wisdom of the past and to train our powers in the present by it safely, then to use them intelligently and with the right motives, that is the object of a modern Bard and Ovate.” —Ross Nichols, The Book of Druidry


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