A deer comes out of nowhere.

[Whitemane]

I'm not sure if this means anything or not, but this seems to be the best place to ask.

I was sitting beside a river this morning, in an urban area where there is a lot of housing, practicing the Sacred Grove exercise when I heard a series of splashes. I look up and there is a young white tailed deer buck at the edge of the river, and only a few yards from me. He walks into the river, swims throught the deepest part, climbs out on the other side and disappears. I decided that I wasn't going to be able to continue, and stood to leave.

As I left, I saw a doe coming along the path towards me. She turned towards the river as if to cross and I lost sight of her.

Should I be looking to the deer for something?

Any suggestions?, comments?

[Explorer]

I'm not sure if this means anything or not, but this seems to be the best place to ask.

I was sitting beside a river this morning, in an urban area where there is a lot of housing, practicing the Sacred Grove exercise when I heard a series of splashes. I look up and there is a young white tailed deer buck at the edge of the river, and only a few yards from me. He walks into the river, swims throught the deepest part, climbs out on the other side and disappears. I decided that I wasn't going to be able to continue, and stood to leave.

As I left, I saw a doe coming along the path towards me. She turned towards the river as if to cross and I lost sight of her.

Should I be looking to the deer for something?

Any suggestions?, comments?

Allow me to describe this in a slightly different way, and then you can probably answer the question yourself ;-). (I believe you already did).
"I was listening to a digital recording of birdsong, to get more in touch with nature. But suddenly a blackbird appeared and began to sing so loud that I couldn't hear the recorded birdsong anymore. I gave up and left".

More bluntly. If nature happens right in front of you, then forget the exercise, and try to be right there as fully aware as possible.
And if the deer have a message for you, you will know, and in this case they apparently had ;-). Good stuff!
(I wonder if they appear in your Sacred Grove also now)

[katie bridgewater]

Or perhaps it is you that has a message for the deer?

Anyhow, if your purpose in being there was to experience yourself as a part of nature, then you obviously picked a spot that the deer often frequent when they don't feel threatened. So I would say, the message is you have now learned to pick a good spot, sit still and quiet enough that the deer feel they can go about their deery business without threat from you. A milestone many will never pass!

[Explorer]

Or perhaps it is you that has a message for the deer?

Anyhow, if your purpose in being there was to experience yourself as a part of nature, then you obviously picked a spot that the deer often frequent when they don't feel threatened. So I would say, the message is you have now learned to pick a good spot, sit still and quiet enough that the deer feel they can go about their deery business without threat from you. A milestone many will never pass!

*like* (I'm on facebook too much... I miss that button here)

[Badger Bob]

You seem to have been initially disturbed by the presence of the deer so maybe your subconscious is telling you something. What was it that made you give up your meditation? It may be worth working with the deer on the inner level to see if there is anything you need to change or learn. Pathworking can be one way to do this but free-form "journeying", where you let your conscious mind take a back seat and "ride" the imagination wherever it may go from the beginning archetype of the deer, can be productive.

[Whitemane]

Thanks for the replies, and most helpful comments that I will try to act on, but I think that I missed some details that may be helpful.

Deer are extremely unusual in this area. It's close to the city center of a major metropolitan area and flanked by busy roads, residential areas, and a large construction site where a bridge is being rebuilt immediately to the north. It seems that the deer had to negotiate the construction site to get to where I was.

When I saw the male entering the river, I was pleasantly surprised, but also concerned that the animal may be stressed (local parks are overpopulated with deer and a lot of animals are stressed and hungry to begin with) and felt that my absence would do it more good than my presence. My concern was more for the welfare of the animals than for myself. I was actually uplifted by the event.

Thanks again.

[treegod]

In-line with what everyone else said here, the significance is what you make of your experience. Just look at what you felt, sense, intuited and thought; your own impressions.

[RidgeDruid]

I was sitting on my front porch the other morning, doing prayers and a little meditation, and when I came up for air, there was a doe and two yearlings staring at me from about 50 feet away across the road. There are lots of deer where I live, and I had seen these three before. I have been trying to get back into a more regular habit of doing my morning prayer, guess it's starting to work.

As others have said, nature is all around, we must just take the time to be part of it. this morning my wife and I were going to a nearby town to pick up building materials. We have to cut through a very deep valley to get over to the right road and as we were coming up the other side a huge (10 lb+) turkey vulture came out of the brush and started flying up the road ahead of us. We had a successful trip.

[Crinia]

I was meditating recently (outside on the verandah) and felt a strong need to open my eyes. In front of me were a kangaroo and her joey (I suppose they are our equivalent of deer). After watching them I made a point of returning to the meditation. What I realised that it is important for me not interfere in bonds - like the bond between a mother and her child.
Whitemane,after a while you learn to accept the unexpected during meditation so it doesn't interrupt the experience to the point of ending it prematurely.

Crinia

[feranaja]

I work a lot with animals, and whenever I have an encounter that seems unusual or pointed, I do three things.

1) I refer to the lore about the animal, both Celtic and Native American. There are great continuities and a few stand-out differences. If I don't know a specific piece of the lore already, I look it up in a variety of sources, but not so many as to be "seeking the answer I want". If you look long enough on the Internet, someone will tell you cats mean hard work and loyalty and dogs mean cunningness and camouflage. I'm pretty well acquainted with meanings as far as the lore goes, but am never *above* looking something up in a trusted resource. Look to mythology - who was the deer sacred to in ancient times, which god?

2) I read/learn all I can about the animal in its natural state. Much of the Lore is derived from this anyway, but you can go much deeper with your own study.(quick example; you can read in many places that the Deer means sensitivity, grace and beauty,awareness and swiftness; the Stag means connection to the earth and forest, masculinity, pride, regeneration and so on - use these as starting points and go deeper into the animal's lives and habits today, in your area, at the time of the year you saw them. I recently had a Moose visitation - very rare for one to wander into an open field mid-day, I was certainly being spoken to! and spent many weeks looking into not only Moose Medicine but moose behaviour, feeding habits, presence in this area, importance for local peoples. Birds behaving strangely may be simply doing a mating ritual that humans rarely see...it's always important to know the creature on both mythic and mundane levels(IMO).

3) I apply the insights gained by 1 and 2, to my own situation and encounter. Ask yourself - what was the deer actually doing (refreshing itself, crossing water...doe follows buck...) what direction were they headed? In my work, Deer has often represented an invitation to go deeper, to walk into a new area of magic and Spirit. I have had one recently come almost to the front door, stand looking at me and walk slowly away to the West, stopping at intervals to lay her head almost backwards and gaze calmly at me.(I photographed this because it was so unusual, I've lived her 2 decades and see deer all the time). Clearly I was being invited ...somewhere! This was actually one of many signs I was gifted with, that it was time to join OBOD. So there is always that unique, personal element with every encounter, and noticing things like which direction the animal moved, how many, the time of day,.... observation is key.

This is all just one practitioner's way of understanding animal signs and communications; since animals form a core aspect of my spiritual work I do go into it in some detail, hopefully useful, although I'm sure Whitemane you have figured it out a while ago. Whatever an encounter like this may mean, it's always such a blessing simply to behold...and so often they occur when we are least expecting it...

[shirley mclaren]

If it is not an area that deer habitually use, then I would say that the deer had a message for you.

[katie bridgewater]

If it is not an area that deer habitually use, then I would say that the deer had a message for you.

Or, alternatively, as I said, that you have a message for the deer. Maybe the deer felt an urge to take a different route that day just so he/she would see you and have some revelation about themselves through the encounter.

What constitutes habitual use? Once a year on a migration to somewhere might seem unusual to a human, but it is nonetheless 'habitual' and also likely that the deer have been making these same journeys for much much longer than any human has lived on the route. Perhaps it is us exhibiting unusual behaviour, plonking our houses where they used to roam...
Also, I know very few humans who are even aware of deer activity, even when it is right under their noses. There is a deer cut through between some houses opposite the petrol station in my nearest town. I have seen deer crossing there twice, but none of the petrol station staff have ever noticed it until I pointed them out, despite sitting there right by the big window for hours at a time. Now they look out for them. Deer are utterly stealthy, and often go completely unnoticed even by those who consider themselves to be most 'in tune' with nature. I didn't know that red deer frequent our little garden for a long time after moving here, even though I knew they live in the nearby copses. I had never seen one closer than 100 yards from our little enclosure until very recently, and I am here a lot and know a lot about my other-than-human neighbours.

I am really one to turn everything around and look at it from outside of the usual human person at the centre interpretation. Why shouldn't we be messengers to the deer for once. It doesn't always have to be about us!

[DaRC]

I am really one to turn everything around and look at it from outside of the usual human person at the centre interpretation. Why shouldn't we be messengers to the deer for once. It doesn't always have to be about us!

Indeed, I was sat in the garden last night watching the comings and goings, and heard a shuffling noise. Strange I thought and had a quick peek amongst the plant pots, only to find a hedgehog who'd probably thought it seemed a good peaceful place to hide for the day. I had a look (from a distance) and left it to it.

So whilst I sometimes think I'm gardening for me, my organic, wildlife'y approach is actually for that little bit of nature I nominally 'own'. Sometimes I need to remember that whilst others (e.g. my mother) may comment that it's untidy, messy or just disorganised actually the opinion of the slow worms, frogs, insects and hedgehogs are a bit more important than the human input.... They seem to vote with their feet. The message I've been giving out is come to my garden

[Aphritha]

Could it be there's a message for both human and deer? Or there was originally never a message for either, but both were to learn something from it because of their mulling on it?
I find the best way to tell if there's been deer in the area is deer poop. At least in the case of our local deer...

[feranaja]

Could it be there's a message for both human and deer? Or there was originally never a message for either, but both were to learn something from it because of their mulling on it?
I find the best way to tell if there's been deer in the area is deer poop. At least in the case of our local deer...

..and if you have dogs, you will always know there's poop even if you're not looking for it - canine delicacy supreme!

[katie bridgewater]

Or there was originally never a message for either

I am SO glad you said it (I nearly did, but I've been called smug and unspiritual for less, can you believe! LOL!). There is way too much emphasis on messages in natural encounters sometimes in some circles for me.

Corwen says the message for people is that deer live here too, and the message for deer is that people live here too! Good old Occam, eh?

[feranaja]

Would you agree, Katie, that sometimes there IS a message? I consider openness to that possibility a very important element in my own life.

[katie bridgewater]

Would you agree, Katie, that sometimes there IS a message? I consider openness to that possibility a very important element in my own life.

Perhaps. But I think it's much rarer than most people hope, if it exists. And I do think it is probably in the mind of the receiver if there is one. Also, it is not an indicator of 'closedness' to accept that things are seldom meant for me. I used to think everything was a message, until someone asked me 'what makes you so important?' (Hilary Poole, Isle of Erraid in 2001. Now she is a wise woman). My world view has altered radically as a result of that question. I now consider such events as chance (or sometimes sought out) encounters with other persons (human and otherwise), and that is more cosmic to me.

I don't believe in some external force that 'sends' messengers about delivering metaphorical meaning. Rather, I believe that the physical universe contains enough of wonder and relationship that ascribing invisible meanings is only helpful or necessary if you believe it to be (which is fine and I don't have a problem with people believing that, though I do like to question it and share an alternative perspective). I believe that encounters change lives, but not necessarily because they are sent by some higher power. Seeing things as random co-incidences doesn't lessen the wonder and beauty or even spirituality of such moments for me.

Dreams, on the other hand, come from our own subconscious and I do think they contain messages for us. Not ones sent from outside ourselves, but from deep inside. I think people try to analyse physical experiences as if they were dreams, but I see a huge distinction between them. In the case of a dream about a deer, I think the dreamer is of the utmost importance and the message is worth unravelling, since dreams are our way of conveying messages from the hidden parts of ourselves to the conscious parts.

[feranaja]

Would you agree, Katie, that sometimes there IS a message? I consider openness to that possibility a very important element in my own life.

Perhaps. But I think it's much rarer than most people hope, if it exists. And I do think it is probably in the mind of the receiver if there is one. Also, it is not an indicator of 'closedness' to accept that things are seldom meant for me. I used to think everything was a message, until someone asked me 'what makes you so important?' (Hilary Poole, Isle of Erraid in 2001. Now she is a wise woman). My world view has altered radically as a result of that question. I now consider such events as chance (or sometimes sought out) encounters with other persons (human and otherwise), and that is more cosmic to me.

Thank you for your detailed and thoughtful reply, Katie.

I suppose, I have mixed feelings about this - personally, as it applies to me (of course whatever you understand is your own gnosis..I don't presume to question that). I suppose, really, that I feel something of a paradox - both that- sure, everything is not a "sign" and yes, it takes years, even decades of practise to understand the difference...but also, I am sure, I mean I *know* that everything is singing to us all the time, and when we stop, still our minds and listen, messengers do arrive and they can be life changing. This isn't narcissism ( eg all about ME) but skillfull discernment(and yes, open-ness). So, I respect your balancing words here, but I think we can swing a little far towards dismissiveness just as we so often start out on a path with excessive credulity.

I don't believe in some external force that 'sends' messengers about delivering metaphorical meaning. Rather, I believe that the physical universe contains enough of wonder and relationship that ascribing invisible meanings is only helpful or necessary if you believe it to be (which is fine and I don't have a problem with people believing that, though I do like to question it and share an alternative perspective). I believe that encounters change lives, but not necessarily because they are sent by some higher power. Seeing things as random co-incidences doesn't lessen the wonder and beauty or even spirituality of such moments for me.

That's maybe where we differ; I Do understand the Universe as containing powers and entities far outside my own sensorial grasp; and I am sure I have been "messaged" - though by what or whom or why, I can only speculate (that's where the idea of faith comes in; I feel pretty sure about who and why, but I can't offer you any proof...) Every blue jay at my feeder isn't a messenger, but they are all little miracles; when messengers have come and my life has been touched with synchronicity/numinosity, I open to it..I don't necessarily (anymore) try to explain it, but I work with it as some element of divinity, and as such recognize the miracle of the blue jay and the Miracle of this communication.

Dreams, on the other hand, come from our own subconscious and I do think they contain messages for us. Not ones sent from outside ourselves, but from deep inside. I think people try to analyze physical experiences as if they were dreams, but I see a huge distinction between them. In the case of a dream about a deer, I think the dreamer is of the utmost importance and the message is worth unravelling, since dreams are our way of conveying messages from the hidden parts of ourselves to the conscious parts.

Well, a a former Jungian I wouldn't dispute the centrality of the dream - but, I think the numinous and unusual confrontation with animals(birds, insects, reptiles, people!) is equally important. If encounters align - as in, you dreamed of a moth, then that moth appeared in your garden, then you did an Animal Card reading and drew the moth - well, time to listen. And it's been my experience that working on all of these levels is deeply powerful and yes, magical.
The emissaries that come to us in a dream are not different from those who arrive in a turtle, a deer, or a butterfly. As above so below - as within, so without.
Or so my own experiences and observations tell me.

[RedSky]

I think each of us would take a different meaning from such a thing. What did it mean to you?
I was deep in meditation one time seeking a spirit ally. My little collie bitch kept poking her nose into my hand.
It was days later when I repeated the meditation and she repeated the action. Well I now accept a collie as another
spirit ally. Maybe the deer just dug the vibe. Pretty cool in any case. I've spent time in the north woods and deer
don't hang around where they feel the least animosity.

peace