Page 1 of 1

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 15:02
by Aphritha
Hm. Interesting...

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 16:39
by Badger Bob
Matlock here in Derbyshire used to have a petrifying grotto where the lime rich water would encrust ordinary objects within a few months. After a decade or two a hammer could very easily look like that one. Fascinating to see in action but unfortunately no proof of creationism.

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 19:00
by greygreen
Given the prevalence of Trinity and Edwards limestone in Texas and the fast moving artesian wells, I would second the explanation that a hammer was lost in, say, a river bed and rapidly covered over the course of 100 years or so. Similarly, the fossil placed next to the hammer in the photo appears to be a modern clam ...

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 19:10
by DJ Droood
Wouldn't a millions of years old hammer refute Creationism? 6,000 years and all that...I would say it would be a better propaganda tool for the Raëlians.

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 27 Apr 2014, 21:20
by Brân Gannaid
Reminds me of people seeing the virgin Mary or Jesus in a cheese sandwich.

http://www.nbcnews.com/health/body-odd/ ... f1C6436912

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 28 Apr 2014, 15:43
by ShadowCat
I think Thor is just having a giggle :grin:

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 29 Apr 2014, 09:58
by Badger Bob
DJ Droood wrote:Wouldn't a millions of years old hammer refute Creationism? 6,000 years and all that...I would say it would be a better propaganda tool for the Raëlians.
No, it would suit the creationists as well. According to some YECs that I have been arguing with recently stuff like carbon dating doesn't actually work and before the great flood people lived alongside a few dinosaur like creatures. A hammer buried in rock that is "proven" to be millions of years old by flawed scientific measurement shows that whenever it was, human beings were there because they were obviously created on the sixth day. Oh and they know that the scientific measurement is flawed because Archbishop James Ussher proved that the earth began in 4004BC. I have heard of this hammer being used in arguments by YECs before but they don't like to be specific on it, just "a hammer" found "in the USA". I passed the link onto some of my firmly non-YEC Christian friends and we all agreed that it isn't millions of years old as has been argued.

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 29 Apr 2014, 11:57
by DJ Droood
Badger Bob wrote:According to some YECs that I have been arguing with recently stuff like carbon dating doesn't actually work
Well that is the modern rhetorical stance, isn't it? Simply reject as false anything that contradicts your ideological position. This is why I find "debate" tedious...you get two (or more) people arguing about a topic they probably have very little factual knowledge of, and are perfectly prepared to make up or misrepresent facts (often "statistics") and reject anything that challenges their worldview. Actually sometimes it is one very well informed person, and one or more fools, or a group of well informed people against one loud fool, but the results is usually the same. YEC is an egregious and humourous example, but I think everyone is guilty. Politics, sports, religion, science...honest ignorance and deliberate obtuseness battle it out to see who "destroys" the other person. That is why I still like messageboards...it is possible to come on, shout out your polemical declaration and go make a cup of tea for yourself, with very little time wasted.

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 01 May 2014, 06:17
by Brân Gannaid
DJ Droood wrote:
Badger Bob wrote:According to some YECs that I have been arguing with recently stuff like carbon dating doesn't actually work
Well that is the modern rhetorical stance, isn't it? Simply reject as false anything that contradicts your ideological position. <snip> That is why I still like messageboards...it is possible to come on, shout out your polemical declaration and go make a cup of tea for yourself, with very little time wasted.
I'm just thankful those particular memes never hitchhiked a ride on my brain. It's amazing what people are willing to believe and dedicate their lives to. I'm not sure it's even worth arguing with them, other than initially to state one's position and give a bit of substantive evidence hoping it might slip in through a crack.

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 01 May 2014, 12:00
by DaRC
DJ Droood wrote:
Badger Bob wrote:According to some YECs that I have been arguing with recently stuff like carbon dating doesn't actually work
Well that is the modern rhetorical stance, isn't it? Simply reject as false anything that contradicts your ideological position. This is why I find "debate" tedious...you get two (or more) people arguing about a topic they probably have very little factual knowledge of, and are perfectly prepared to make up or misrepresent facts (often "statistics") and reject anything that challenges their worldview. Actually sometimes it is one very well informed person, and one or more fools, or a group of well informed people against one loud fool, but the results is usually the same. YEC is an egregious and humourous example, but I think everyone is guilty. Politics, sports, religion, science...honest ignorance and deliberate obtuseness battle it out to see who "destroys" the other person. That is why I still like messageboards...it is possible to come on, shout out your polemical declaration and go make a cup of tea for yourself, with very little time wasted.
I always think of the Odin's wisdom in the Havamal...
26.
The unwise man thinks all to know,
while he sits in a sheltered nook;
but he knows not one thing, what he shall answer,
if men shall put him to proof.

27.
For the unwise man 'tis best to be mute
when he come amid the crowd,
for none is aware of his lack of wit
if he wastes not too many words;
for he who lacks wit shall never learn
though his words flow ne'er so fast.

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 01 May 2014, 13:08
by DJ Droood
As someone smart once said "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and prove it." (or something to that effect)

Re: Mystery of an old Texas hammer

Posted: 01 May 2014, 21:40
by Brân Gannaid
DJ Droood wrote: <snip> "It is better to remain silent and be thought a fool than to open one's mouth and prove it." <snip>
I see 2 prongs here: What one thinks inside his or her own head and what one puts out into the world.

It's sort of a 2-edged sword. If we keep it in, we don't hear a lot about what others think when they seek to debate us, augment our position, or offer a new way of thinking. It could actually limit what we experience.

If one is a true believer in some stream of cultural folklore, one may feel compelled to spread it to others, and when one sees through folklore, one may feel compelled to share that insight with others. In OBOD, we have a choice of whether to believe something fundamentally, or exclusively use it as a learning tool. In fundamentalist belief systems, there is no choice.

My own best teachers were those who were able to create a space where I could see something for myself so it came naturally. Granted, I was always wired as I am now: To be open to new knowledge, even if it completely unravels my former working hypothesis of the world/life. It's impossible for me to envision clinging to folklore and thinking that, if I just share enough quotes from a particular "sacred" text, people will realize I'm right, and come to agree with me.

Culture is a powerful force guiding human thought and behavior. I am dressed in clothing of my culture right now, in a color generally worn by females or some gay males, mostly because it's readily available, affordable, and I don't really care, as long as I don't feel encumbered or uncomfortable due to weather conditions or limitations on my movements. Culture fascinates me, and has done so for many years.