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Posted: 18 Jul 2006, 20:44
by Propheous
IF your really interested in Reiki there is a group that can help you out. I joined them from a link on this board. They are an excellent group of individuals working to spread the use of Reiki and healing. They can prolly answer questions and give you some guidance in that area. I am currently working on learning it myself.

http://health.groups.yahoo.com/group/EnergieWerk/

Posted: 18 Jul 2006, 22:37
by kaniie
yeah i might check it out. right now i'm kind of up for everything and anything. maybe i'm overdoing myself, but i guess i'm kind of just learning and taking everything in until i find a niche that is perfect for me that i can flourish in. but reading, listening, and learning about every thing i can is working best right now. i think alot of my life has been about doing and getting results immediatly- i'm finally learning to take a back seat and just listen and think about things and just try to gain as much knowledge as i can. i'll definatly check it out.

Posted: 18 Jul 2006, 23:27
by Propheous
The hardest thing in life is to just stand still for a moment. I know I had to learn the whole patience thing over again and I hated it.

Posted: 19 Jul 2006, 00:14
by Kat Lady
kaniie wrote:i'm finally learning to take a back seat and just listen and think about things and just try to gain as much knowledge as i can.
Ah, grasshopper...then you have begun to learn. :-)

Seriously, take it one step at a time. There is no rush in anything. And there are many ways to help others. You don't have to be a walker-between-the-worlds to heal and serve.

Posted: 19 Jul 2006, 04:09
by kaniie
Seriously, take it one step at a time. There is no rush in anything.
Ah, one of the best and hardest lessons to learn. :D

But like I said, at least my focus has improved x100. Which has helped my horse riding, which is good because I'm going to college to be on their equestrian team, and am seriously considering going pro. I really need to learn to commune with animals, that would really be helfpul. :D I can "talk" with my horsey, but that's just because I've had him for so long. He's definatly smarter than me though...  :whistle:

Posted: 05 Aug 2006, 13:10
by Moira Rhydd
Hi Kaniie--

I don't know if you're still "on" here, but I was just reading this whole thread and I was charmed by your need to learn and learn fast, as in... yesterday!   :)

You remind me of myself.  I find as well that you are extremely articulate, and you are clearly a seeker, someone who is very deliberately trying to forge her own destiny rather than passively letting it overtake you.

I've been journeying since 2001, and I thought I'd tell you about that.

I was raised by two lapsed Catholics.  My parents were Catholic, but they studied medicine, became doctors, and travelled to the Third World where they saw so much suffering that they stopped believing in God.  When I was born they refused to have me baptized.  They always said that they wanted me to be free to choose my own spiritual path, or not, as I wished.  At the same time, my father was an unhappy man, and he could turn violent against those closest to him, so I was raised in a pretty disturbing family setting.  The result of this was that I became obsessed with spirituality as a teenager.  I read everything I could lay my hands on about Christianity, Islam, Hinduism, Buddhism.  I then became fascinated with Zen Buddhism and ended up with a rather impressive library of Zen books.  I finally studied Zen Buddhism formally with a Zen monk in my 30s.  I didn't come to Shamanism until I was in my early 40s, so you are *way* ahead of me here...   :D

I read a lot about Shamanism before I practiced it.  I was curious but shy about the practice, and there were so many warnings:  you needed protection, you needed to be wary of destructive forces, your initiation into Shamanism would break you to pieces.  I guess I felt a little intimidated.  This was clearly powerful stuff.

The first time I tried to journey, I went quite far, and when I think back on it now, I think it's because I had a very specific question that I needed answered.  A friend of mine had everything (training, personality, talent) to go far in life, yet he was headed nowhere.  He was unhappy, and since he wasn't the most verbal of persons, and couldn't explain to me why he was so "blocked" and unhappy, I found myself going on a journey to figure out what was wrong.  

I didn't deliberately set out to journey.  Here's the ridiculous truth...  I was sitting in my eye-doctor's waiting room, and he was very late that day, so there were still many people ahead of me.  The waiting room was horrible--the colours of the chairs were horrible, the paint on the wall was a horrible mustard yellow.  I closed my eyes against it all, I guess, and I found myself deliberately journeying at first, with my question in hand, so to speak, and then "it" took over, and I was no longer entirely in control.

I was immediately met by an animal-guide, and I asked her (female animal) if she could answer my question.  She took me from the water's edge into the forest and then into a cave, and that's when I *saw* the answer.  It came to me symbolically, poetically, as a metaphor rather than as a straight answer.  Remember that Shamans are poets *and* interpreters--they can see things symbolically and then they need to interpret these symbols for the community they serve.  In that case the symbol was powerful enough that I felt I really had something to work on.  Unfortunately, at that point, the cave filled up with smoke and I had to "exit" my journey very rapidly, having had only enough time to thank my guide.  

When I opened my eyes and found myself back in the doctor's waiting room, I was so freaked out by what I'd seen that I just got up and left.  I told the doctor's secretary that I'd call her soon and make another appointment.  I couldn't handle it.

Later, over many months, I came to see that my "vision" had been 100% accurate (and the reason I don't post details here is that this concerns somebody else's life).  I also spoke to a woman I knew who had more experience than me in these matters, and she taught me that *you* are in control of the journey.  When the cave in my journey filled up with smoke, I could have found the tools to make it stop.  To her, journeying is a bit like guided dreaming.  You can change the "reality" of what you see.  I don't know that I believe that, personally.  I'd rather be taken through whatever comes my way than influence the outcome of a vision.  When I try to do the latter, I'm not sure whether I'm seeing the "truth" of a given situation or whether it's wishful thinking instead.  So I've disregarded her advice, although I'm not sure which method is the best, hers or mine.

What happened later, though, was that I fell apart, physically.  Everything went wrong.  I had so many aches and pains and injuries that I was out of commission for weeks and in and out of physiotherapy and various doctors' offices.  I've often wondered since whether this was the "initiatory falling apart" of the journeyor that I'd read about in my books.  

I've been journeying ever since, but no journey is as strong as the one that attempts to answer a very specific question.  Those produce the most vivid images and symbols, the truest answers.  Since then I've seen animal guides switch three times (from she-wolf to bear to horse).  Every time, these guides were precisely the ones I needed.  For example, when I tried to find answers for an acquaintance recently, a horse came to me for the first time.  I didn't know this acquaintance intimately--I didn't know any details of his life.  After the journey, I asked him if he had any connection with horses, and he said that the town in France where he was born was a horse-show and competition town, and that his first job at the age of 17 was as an apprentice horse trainer.  Aha...  I hadn't known that, but there you go...  Horse came to me, not I to he.  I've also been guided by human-shaped forces and guides.  

I try not to overdo it.  I journey ONLY when there's a need for it.  My experience has always been that I can't do it all the time, and that journeying isn't a distraction, like watching a movie when I don't feel like doing something else.  I journey to find answers for others mostly, because--in my case--journeying for myself, to find answers to my own personal questions doesn't work.  But I think that this is entirely personal, and I know that some Shamanic groups disagree with me on this and say that you need to "heal" yourself first before you heal others.  Thing is, I went through 6 years of Jungian psychotherapy, so I think I'm pretty familiar with myself by now  :o .  And I don't think of Shamanism and journeying as "healing," but rather as a process that gives me the tools to better understand others, and help them better understand themselves.  Generally, then, I get much sharper answers when I'm doing this for someone else.

I'm not sure what lessons you can derive from this, Kaniie, because although it is rooted in very precise rituals and there are dangers, Shamanism is an essentially personal practice in the sense that no one else can take the journey for you.  Every Shaman must test the grounds for him- or herself.  There are guidelines, but your practice will be your own and--although it may have a great deal in common with that of others--there will always be details of it that belong only to you.

I'd say relax, but focus at the same time.  Focus on a question, an issue.  If focusing on yourself doesn't work, try focusing on someone else's issues and see what that produces.  But be careful and be safe.  Surround yourself with helpful guides.  If anything in your journey feels very scary or dangerous, retreat.  Thank your guide and come back to this world.  Always come back to this world--don't fall asleep and get stuck down there.  Don't do too much of it at once.  Give yourself breaks of days or even weeks in between attempts, because this is powerful stuff.  And keep us posted.

:hug: Blessings--

Posted: 05 Aug 2006, 22:41
by kaniie
Wow thanks for the input... this really helped. It was nice to read, too. I can't say I've gone through what you have, but there was definantly a huge hole in my life that pushed me in this direction. I think it was always there, but I was never willing to forge ahead until recently. I don't like having other people control my life, I want to control it. And the warnings... maybe its bad, but I really don't mind. The pain, the whatever, it doesn't scare me.

I recently went on a mission trip with my church to ecuador, and we received the privilege of staying three nights in the amazon with the waodani tribe (yes, once in a life time chance!!) and I remember laying in one of the hammocks late at night and this thought occurred to me, it was God (i've always been an unconventional christian- God is more like, a power source.. like all god's in all the different religions are one in the same, its just the omega source, so when I pray to God it was more generalized) was giving me an offer: that if I chose so, I could "know everything", but that it would be a hard and long road, but the end reward would be great and I'd get to live a life most never knew existed. I thought about it, and decided that that's what I wanted, no matter the cost. Oddly enough, a week after I got home, the ex I had dated who was a shamanic/druid contacted me out of the blue and told me was "suppose" to teach me... I find that really really really coincidental, all most too much so. :)

So far, no luck.. I've ordered a drumming tape (I think that will help with the ADD brain) and we've also discovered that most of my chakras are severely blocked, probably from that 'hole' in my life I was talking about.. so I'm work-shopping them and he's helping me clear them. I've read a lot about how its hard to journey if your chakras are blocked or your bodies out of line, so that may be a reason.

Your first journey is cool, though.. how you just stumbled into it. I think I could use to journey, of sorts, when I was little. I didn't know what it was then, though. And growing up steals all that from you. I use to tell my parents a light came to my window at night and "took me outside" and such, and I have a bunch of memories from when I was younger that my parents say never happened, and a lot of supernatural things that happened as well... :\

I agree with you about the "guided" thing.. I think guided dreams or whatever have a place, as relaxation or just working on certain skills, but when journeying and trying to find answers, I would rather see what I need to then see what I want, even if the truth hurts. :)

I suppose I want to journey for both reasons- healing myself and others. I'm mostly a giver, though, but I've given so much I have nothing left. Also just out of curiosity.. it might be bad, but I want to know everything, I want to know how the universe works.. or like, what's more to this life. It can't just all be black and white. I went through a deep depression, with thoughts of just wanting to end it all because I worthless, and so forth back in December... I still feel defunct at times, with aches and pains and always tired. I'm doing yoga, and that helps to relax and re-energize me, though. Lol. While the depression is gone, the effects still remain, and I still have a bad day on occasion. I don't know what causes depression, or why I fell into so deep of one, because I've always been such a happy person. It was odd.

I'm trying not to rush it... of course I want to be able to go now.. but I'd rather do it right then mess up. That's why I'm taking the time to fix my chakras and re-align my bodies, to make it both easier and safer on myself. I've been practicing without drums and have had only one really powerful experience- but I did have a dream the other night where I was using my drum tape and was successful... I tend to have psychic dreams that come true, so maybe that's a sign. The tape should be in soon. :) I don't want to try until then, because .. I don't know, just don't. Lol. But I'll let you know..

Thanks again, it was just helpful to hear someone tell their story and their opinions in such a caring way. Have a great day. :}

Posted: 06 Aug 2006, 12:49
by Moira Rhydd
Hey Kaniie--

Why do people get depressed?  I'm a literary type, so I couldn't give you the exact scientific answer to that.   :wink:   It has to do with chemicals in our brain, mostly. Sometimes depression is reactive--we react to the death of a loved one, to the breakup of a relationship, or to some other form of loss (loss of friendship, job, hope, dream, etc.).  And sometimes people have a predisposition towards depression because a slight chemical imbalance runs in the family.  Either way, the process of depression is physiological.  Its effects (or symptoms) are felt at the level of our psyche and moods.  At times depression is light and the sufferer can get out of it on his or her own.  At times it lingers on, and therapy/counseling or medication become necessary to make sure that the sufferer is all right again.  Generally speaking, depression is defined as a loss of interest in everything that used to be pleasurable for you, such as food, hobbies, friendship, sex, etc.  Doctors diagnose depression when there are at least 4 of the following symptoms every day for at least 2 weeks:

-poor appetite, significant weight loss, or significant weight gain;
-no ability to sleep, or a tendency to sleep all the time;
-agitation, or a slowing down of the usual psychomotor reflexes;
-loss of interest or pleasure in life's usual activities;
-fatigue, loss of energy;
-feelings of worthlessness, reproaching oneself, excessive or inappropriate guilt;
-diminished ability to think or concentrate;
-recurrent thoughts of death, suicidal ideas or attempts, or statements such as "I wish I were dead."

If you feel that you have at least 4 of the above and that it's been going on for more than 2 weeks, you should really see a regular family doctor and talk to him or her about it.  

Researchers have found that exercise helps tremendously in cases of slight to moderate depression, so if you still feel a bit wobbly, you might try a regular fitness routine (if you're not already doing that):  dancing, swimming, running, the gym, long bike rides, that sort of thing.  But really, don't take chances--if this goes on and on, seek professional help.  The truth is that about 75% of people (if not more) will have an incident of depression at least once in their lives, so there's nothing odd about it.  I had one at 19, over some boy, of course... :sick:  I wouldn't go to class, slept all the time, and lost a lot of weight.  Now, many years later, I could kick that guy's uh... bottom...  Anyway--daily swimming got me out of it.  The tree-lined walk home back from the pool started feeling more and more beautiful, and one day I was in love with life again.

As for chakras, I ain't no expert.  I know nothing "technical" about it.   ;)   But I think that the chances of your chakras being aligned and luminously vibrant tend to increase if you're leading a happy healthy life out there--seeing friends, having fun, making sure that you have goals and a purpose in life, exercising, maintaining good relationships with people who matter, etc.  In the end, chakra cleansing and alignment, it seems to me, is no substitute for the efforts put towards a good life.

And it's precisely that--making conscious efforts towards a balanced, healthy, happy and strong life--that will give you the experience and physical and mental energy necessary to explore the world and your own spirituality.  

Would you hate me very much if I gave you some "older person's non-sollicited advice"?   :oops:   Trust me on this...  Things become a lot tougher with time.  I'm 46, so I know nothing about being 50, 60, or 70, like my parents...  But I do know that 20 is a lot easier than 30, and 30 is somewhat easier than 40.  With time, responsibilities pile up, financial needs become greater, anxiety about the future increases, health problems start to appear...  So have fun NOW, bite into life and be wild and happy and healthy NOW, because it will give you something that will stay with you as life gets a little bit tougher.

Once you have that basis of consciousness about your own health and strength and capacity to be happy and forge meaningful bonds with people who matter, then everything else will fall into place, including your spiritual needs.

I hope you won't resent the above.  And please don't think that life at 30 or 40 is dismal--it really isn't, and there are definite perks to being older:  you feel more confident, many of your old questions get answered, love is easier, and you have more power to achieve things.  It's just that I've really enjoyed reading your postings, and you seem like a very, very special young woman, full of life, questions, energy.  Sometimes, though, I feel that you can get pulled downward, and I think that there will be plenty of time for that as life unfolds, so enjoy this time of your life.  Stay strong.  Everything will fall into place if you take responsibility for your health and happiness.

Big hug-- :hug:
:prdog:

Posted: 06 Aug 2006, 20:16
by kaniie
I don't know, my depression started for no reason. I just remember one day my parents were going on a business paid trip to Maryland, and I had decided to stay home. And my boyfriend came over and by the time he had come I had decided I wanted to go on the trip instead and then spent the whole trip crying and depressed. After that it was always kind of there. It was one reason my relationship (he was a very special someone) ended, and that just kind of dug the grave deeper. my grades started flopping, i wasn't happy with the friends I had, etc. I told my parents back in December that I needed help. My dad was really supportive, but as he went to tell my mom (I went to my dad first) I was sitting in the hall listening and I just remember one thing she said: "she doesn't need help, she needs discipline! what she needs is to be smacked around." My mom's theory was this: she works all the time to pay for my horse and everything else, and i have a car, and that should equal happiness. But what she said really hurt and made it even worse, and I hated that I couldn't talk to my mom. I kept working on it by myself, though, with a conscious effort to pull myself out of it, and things are a lot better now. I'm really excited about college- It'll be a new start and I'm going to be on the college's equestrian team, doing the thing I love the most most days of the week. :) I reconnected with my old friends and the boyfriend (he was like my best friend) too, so that was good. I had cut them off when I became depressed and replaced them with fake things, but putting your effort into meaningful things is much more rewarding. :)

Yoga and riding are my two outlets. I probably don't do either as much as I should, lol, but yoga quiets my mind and you can have the worse day in the world, go riding, and forget everything. I love walking into the barn and having my horse look all eagerly at me from his stall or come to me in the field (well, he comes sometimes... lol) and snuggle up on me and follow me around. :D my horse is my absolute best friend, I don't know what I'd do without him. He's so smart (so much smarter than me!) and I can tell him anything and he understands. On bad days he knows it and is extra nice, and on good days he's a brat and keeps my ego in place. :D

But thank you very much for all of your insight. I know life is going, and going fast and I should just live in the moment. I think I have that "Eowyn" syndrome (if you ever watched LOTR) where you don't want to get older and have to pay mortgages, lose people, start acheing and not being able to do as much. That scares me and kind of depresses me. And I'm really empathetic, like yesterday all I had to do was read about these kids from a nearby school coming back from vacation, and the driver fell asleep and of course he survived but two other passengers didn't - that doesn't register with me. why should the two who did nothing have to die? they were both really good kids and beautiful and i started thinking about how they were planning their whole future, getting ready to go to college, and now they were just gone. like that. it just doesn't make sense to me.. :( But there's alot of beautiful things in life too, I know...

anyway, thanks. and the chipmunk at the end of your thing made me smile. :D this might be off topic now, haha, so we might wanna message next time.  :whistle: [/i]

Posted: 09 Aug 2006, 07:39
by Druantia
As I am new here, I have just read this series of posts.  To find the otherworld is just something that will one day come naturally to you.  It is not that you are doomed to be in this world, as the otherworld is an extention of this world.  It is right in front of you, anywhere you go.  You dont need to go to a sacred site to experience it, but if you are having trouble getting there, perhaps a sacred site might help.  
Have you got there yet?    Blessings,  Druantia     :luis:

Posted: 09 Aug 2006, 07:45
by Druantia
The word Depressed means a depressing or lowering of the consciousness, so that unconscious contents filter through. When one gets depressed, it is an opportunity for growth rather than something bad.  It can sometimes be a symbolic death experience, but often brings new insights.     Druantia

Posted: 09 Aug 2006, 11:14
by Kat Lady
Kaniie, depression happens to all of us at the least convenient time. But as Druantia states, sometimes it is a way for us to reflect and helps us to progress when we step forward.

If depression become opressive and constant, then I do suggest that you seek help. We all need a hand now and then to push us along. We are pack animals after all and need that interaction with others.

As far as the Otherworld, it isn't going anywhere. Sometimes we defeat ourselves by attempting to force our path instead of walking it naturally. There are less brambles on a gentle walk rather than forging through a thicket. Embrace yourself, get to know yourself and you will find that your walk will automatically lead you to the destination you seek.

Posted: 09 Aug 2006, 14:02
by Propheous
I agree whole heartedly with Kat Lady on the subject of defeating yourself if you try to hard. I have all ways had an analytical mind and one that is active all the time. Recently at the retreat I just enjoyed I experienced what could only be described as a journey or vision during a workshop. I spent most of the time with an active mind trying to fight the process and control it, while the other half of my mind was telling me to shut up sit back and enjoy. The vision managed to get through but I knew I was fighting for control the whole time. The hardest thing isn't to sit to still, but to accept the need to sit still. We can't control everything, and even things like "Now what will I tell everyone once this is over" can distract you from something beautiful if you can't put aside our outer needs to let the inner ones be fullfilled.

Posted: 09 Aug 2006, 18:11
by kaniie
Heh, thanks for everyone's concerns, but I'm not depressed anymore. I can say I've recovered, and yes have realized that it has had an overall positive effect on my life and that I can learn from it and move on, so, yeah.  :grin:

I'm also not rushing anything, really. I'm taking my time and just letting things happen however they're suppose to. I think when I started this it was 'now now now' but now its like 'whenever, i'm just enjoying the process' lol.

But, like Propheous said, I am a victim of over thinking- like when I start to let go my mind fights and starts jabbing non-stop "what if, what if, what if-" and then it like backfires. I try to just keep telling myself its okay, that I'm allowed to, that I can, that it'll be fine and override my brain, but... I need more work. Lol.

But thankyou guys anyway.  :grin:

Posted: 10 Aug 2006, 04:50
by Druantia
Beautifully said, Kat Lady.   Blessings,   Druantia