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Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 13 Aug 2010, 06:46
by Zylah
Hello, Morgane :hiya: -

You have had some absolutely brilliant replies here, and I'm so glad you posted this topic so all of that wisdom could be brought out.

That you are gracious toward your friend because you know and appreciate her as a whole person, while we are only hearing this particular incident from your perspective, is a factor I recognize. You are the only one here in a position to know the sort of person she is; as to how appropriate her behavior might have been, we all have our opinion, but again, you determine what you will accept and where you'll draw the line with what reasons.

That said, I agree with Donata that your friend's method of correction is noxious, and I would argue that this is quite pertinent to the topic. That is toxic behavior, which as many have pointed out, is universal whether you talk about sports teams, religion, politics, art, cooking, whatever. 'My way is better than yours because......' is a human trap. We all fall in. However, its universality is not an excuse.

I was not surprised to read that you are a psychologist, and from what I can see you're very talented. :tiphat: As such, I would think you might consider Donata's questions; not because it goes to your friend's character as such, but because it has affected you enough for you to explore it here.

I totally agree with your distinction between dealing with a person on the soul level (your friend's 'wise woman' aspect) as opposed to the petty inner child level (her 'I'm-better-than-you-because' tendency); but given that disparity, do you not agree that your response to each of these manifestations of her character should be equally disparate?

In other words: when a person behaves as a wise man or woman, you respond to them as such. When they behave like a petty, childish brat, you vary your response appropriately. Personalizing this to me, I appreciate those I love who will do this to me. When I'm in Sage Mode, they treat me with respect as well as love. When I'm in rip-your-eyes-out-and-feed-them-to-you B*#ch mode - NOT that I do this, of course, it's MERELY a theoretical example :curtsey: , they still love me, but they don't put up with that crap! I treat them the same way.

A public humiliation over a subjective disagreement is never acceptable. Nor do I think (though I could be wrong - that happens with disappointing frequency!) you would have detailed it here if on some level you did not intend to test objective people's responses to the act in question. Invariably in response to the act of public humiliation, the replies have been that it is not acceptable. This aspect of the conversation has nothing to do with OBOD vs. other Druid camps, but it has to do with respect and courtesy.

Respect and courtesy *DO* have a lot to do with Druidry, as I see it. I think that's why we take umbrage to the lack of it you describe in your friend in this instance. The love of goodness, of the divine, of all life - part of that is honoring the dignity inherent in all that we are surrounded with; certainly including our friends.

Sorry to harp on it; but I think it's important, and the others have done an utterly beautiful job of addressing the more objective points.

Treegod's point about the circularity of the Druid's journey is especially well-made; this is a reflection of everything we see in nature, the seasons and the cycle of a day or a life; we pattern Druidry the same way. Cyclical growth, neither stagnant nor turbulent, but a steady flow; a spiraling pattern, repetitious without being redundant.

I loved what Merlyn said about learning from another's path or journey, without being pressured to respond in any particular way. Druidry is ancient, and we know enough to be aware of that and enjoy the prickling sense of the Numinous; however, Druidry is also still alive. The only ancient things that are still alive are those which know how to adapt, to change and grow and be part of the continuum; detached from anchors, but in touch with all its long history at once. Preserving or reconstructing what was (we think) useful and/or appropriate in a time long past has value, but it should certainly not be seen as the only correct approach to a living spiritual path.

Lailoken was also I believe 100% correct in pointing out that we simply don't *know* enough to state with perfect historical veracity 'Thus-and-such were the Druids'. Nor is philosophy and religion a field in which it is appropriate to *EVER* dictate to someone what and who they are. These things are intensely personal; I am a Druid in a way that may be quite different from Merlyn's or yours or Donata's, but none of us has a right to eye another judgmentally. With curiosity, interest, puzzlement, even sometimes concern, perhaps - but not with discriminatory bias. It's as Lailoken also said: if you are a Druid, it's becuase you were born a Druid and will die one. I know that's true for me as well, and I'm glad he expressed it so well.

And now I will shut up and go to sleep. Thank you for this highly thought-provoking, interesting thread! :applause:

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 13 Aug 2010, 08:23
by merryb
Hi morgane_snowy_owl

I have read this thread and thought I would chip in as a new bard who has wondered about my place.

I have been a Reiki teacher and healer for many years. This tradition involves hands-on-healing and also sending distance healing, therefore I would describe myself as a healer but I am not an Ovate. When I answer posts and send healing I sometimes look over shoulder in case one of the more strident "poster" calls me to task as I am not a healer in the OBOD. This is as a ressult a reply to one of my posts in current affairs appeared to be aggressive towards me and my beliefs. I was quite shocked by it.

I decided never to post again on the message board - just keep my head down under the parapet. But I called upon my Reiki instincts and sent the issue up to the universal energy. After this I did reply in what I felt was a positive way. But sometimes I do not post because of this experience.

However I am very clear that I am a healer but I would not yet call myself a druidess because I am only just dipping my toes into Druidry. But from your post you are far deeper into druid ways than me and I believe you have every right to call yourself a Druidess.

As for your friend I hope she soon feels less insecure about her own abilities so she does not have to create barriers against others.

With blessing and light

I will go back and read all the post again carefully as I found the replies to your question very informative and set me thinking

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 13 Aug 2010, 14:09
by scopulus
I have been there, where someone corrected me on who I was or not was.
I told them blatantly that tehy are also very spiritual pagans by raising themselfes over another and create a guru syndrom because they think to know what I feel like.. I

Then I decided: why arque?
I am now a bard, to anyone who wants to know and when they ask me what a bard is , I tell them I studies paganistic philosophie, much like the bardic tales of wandering story tellers...
That usually silences them...

My advice: your ego is needed. By letting someone else dictate you "out of love" that you should step away from your ego, you not only hurt your ego but feed theirs too... out of love might be correct: but wouldn't it be : out of their own love? :D
The tricky part of this will be that one day: your ego will arise and rise again, not being that angel anymore that got told to correct herself, but a devil that will tell the other to shuff it...
Work on it yourself. If you agree that your ego is too high, then it is. Nobody else should tell you that. Realise it yourself.
And if you realise it, then think how it would feel without ego? Would you like that? ;) Imagine a world around you where your ego is no longer important. And if you figured out how to do that, please tell us :D Many of us can make use of those benefits you may experience, myself included!


Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 13 Aug 2010, 15:26
by morgane_snowy_owl
Good morning guys!

Wow... :wow: I had no idea that thread would trigger so much reflection and I'm really glad it got very interesting conversations going.

I'd like to explain something and I hope the people who comment about my relationship with this person will take that into consideration.

Marie-Renee is not a standard friend. She is not someone who calls me for a chat, we don't go out for coffee, we don't invite each other to our houses, and so on. She is the owner of a white magic boutique The boutique has a temple downstairs and offers workshops, public rituals and a variety of other pagan-related events. It is a huge part of the francophone pagan community here. The website has around 100,000 visitors worldwide each week. It embraces a lot of traditions (although 75% of the clientele is Wicca).

I started as a mere client there and, with the passing years, started to hang out there and literally became part of the family. I started giving workshops. Marie-Renee became my mentor, in a way. Not that she gave me steady lessons, but I had about a dozen consultations with her throughout the years, and those were very enlightening. They helped me grow spiritually like you wouldn't believe. Sometimes, precisely because I was shocked by the things she was saying and fought them, then thought about it, experienced a few things, and then saw she was right. She teaches several workshops too, and I attended those. When we bought our 2nd house, she performed an banishing ritual to get it rid of a ghost and the energy remains a clumsy dark magic pagan had left behind her, which had caused 4 accidents during the renovations (and almost killed my father's wife). In December 2008, she initiated me (in no particular tradition), and the whole preparation I went through for it made me grow a lot too, and made me become more resourceful in practicing magic.

For serious health reasons, she had to leave the boutique for a few months. Most of the staff left the boutique, most of them because they were fed off with her attitude. When she returned, she had understood that the boutique was at the end of its natural cycle, and it was time for her to step down. She still wanted to be part of the boutique and its purpose as co-owner, but more as a part of the Elders Council, and not as the captain of the boat. The person who became captain showed a lot of potential and did his very best. By the end of the year, the boutique was near bankrupcy, our captain was in burnout without anyone stepping up to replace him... to this day, he still hasn't come back, and the boutique now has new co-owners (a wonderful pagan couple, but solitary practitionners).

So Marie-Renee had to come back at the head of the boutique, and since then the boutique has been very active. We all feel that clients and pagans in general came back because the right people are now part of the staff and teaching group. I still give workshops there, but on new topics, and now I really feel like I'm doing things right because several people showed up, gave me good feedback, and I feel right giving them.

When we had our other captain, we started doing public rituals again for the Sabbats. I was a co-officiant (or magister, or priestess if you like) during those, but not part of the planning. You can already see it was not very well organized. When Marie-Renee came back at the head of the boutique, she offered to keep the public Sabbats going, but only if we could form a planning comittee that would do an involved and serious job. I am part of this committee, along with the two other members of the Isle of the Snowy Owl seedgroup and around 5 other people. Marie-Renee is, as co-owner and only Elder at the boutique, in charge of that group.

So far, the two public Sabbats that we have done (Beltaine and Lughnasadh) have been a great success. The committee's meetings are absolutely wonderful. We are from different traditions, with different levels of experience. The exchanges we have on these topics are a wonderful opportunity to learn new things or deepen my knowledge of the Wheel of the Year, of how to build a ritual, what is the role of a Guardian, a priest or priestess, casting the Circle, you name it. Not to mention giving me the wonderful opportunity to be a priestess or guardian during public rituals. :cloud9:

Since the committee started meeting, Marie-Renee made a few personal comments about me on a few occasions. You guys talked about public humiliation, but I never used those words. I said she put me in my place in public. Meaning she disagreed with me and had the last word, it's very hard to outsmart her. The first time, I talked to her afterwards, she saw she was out of place and she apologized. The second time was when she offered me to be a priestess for Lughnasadh, and I refused because I didn't feel I was in that energy. She said, "You know, it could help you heal some wounds..." I was very angry that her knowledge of intimate details about me was hinted in public (we had had a consultation about those wounds in May). I immediately closed up, became defensive, and kept repeating that I certainly wouldn't insult my fellow pagans by using a public ritual with them to expose and heal my wounds.

But she had her reasons for saying that. She explained that she has seen, on some occasions, magisters (priests or priestesses) do a ritual with a lot of involvement. They took a leap of faith, and gave themselves with complete abandon, trust and faith to the sacred act, and the sacred energies in place. And because they embraced that vulnerability, something magical and very beautiful happened: something Higher took over and the ritual was just exceptional and memorable. And the magister came out of it transformed...

She said she didn't do it as a consultant who disclosed confidential details, but as a friend who saw a healing opportunity for her friend. I understood and let it go.

...BUT it still happened two other times after that. A few weeks ago, the council was having a friendly BBQ, and I asked her opinion about astral travel v.s. reiki... She snapped that she didn't have an on/off switch and that the "consultant" was not always on duty. It was so "commercial" an answer, so point-blank that I didn't know what to say. There was an uneasy silence. Moments after that, as if nothing happened, she raved about how exceptional my cake was. I left shortly after that.

And then a few days ago, when she linked the "highway druids" article to the boutique's facebook page ... Rocky_road, someone commented that it would be nice if we organized the same thing here. I commented that there was at least one druidess around here... :whistle: Marie-Renee just wrote, "druidess... or mabinog?" Someone wondered what a mabinog was, I looked it up... found out what you know, and replied what you know. Yesterday, she added "aaaaaahhhh, so, a bard... too bad, I would have given you a job! :wink: " So see, hardly public humiliation.

I inferred, knowing her, that she wrote it on the board (publicly) because she wanted to make sure people didn't misinterpret my comment as me portraying myself as a druid priestess in front of the pagan community, because I haven't completed the training. Hence why I said she put me in my place. Is she very, very fond of titles and ceremonial things? Yes. Does she seem to have personal issues with me that belong to her? Yes, but she won't acknowledge them: I've tried and it always backfires superbly. :duck:

She is very aware that her vast knowledge in several traditions (7 years in Wicca, a couple decades in rosicrucianism, 7 years in druidry, and initiated to the higher levels in all those traditions) and her "larger than life" personality might have a "guru" effect on the boutique's clients, and she really wants to avoid that. I think she also wanted to avoid that effect with me calling myself "druidess" in front of the pagan community, who wouldn't know the difference. As a human (and an actress, lol) she LOVES being the center of attention, and most often she just can't help herself. And many people, including me, have trouble just dismissing what she says as untrue or unimportant, given her "spiritual CV" and personality.

You can easily see why the relationship has been ambiguous, given the whole context. Marie-Renee is no longer my mentor. We have that friendship bond, and yet we mostly meet during boutique-related activities, where she has authority.

I have told her about those public comments. She is able to criticize herself, but at the same time she's extremely tenacious and headstrong. She can be super gentle with beginners who are insecure and fragile. But she's also a firm believer in not beating around the bush, and she'll be especially straightforward with those who can take it (not just me, believe me). I don't want to waste my energy hoping/trying to make her change her attitude. A few weeks ago when she explained her friendly feelings and saw that it was news to me, she offered to back down on the friendship thing and be less "personal" with me. I refused. I thought if I allowed myself to consider her also like a friend and not just a mentor/boutique owner, it might change how I react to that behavior.

But given what happened this week, I think friendship with that woman is, like many people found out before me, toxic.

What do I do now? Boy, it's tricky. And that's why I allow myself to drown you in so many details. I have a golden opportunity to be a super active part of the pagan community here, to grow as a teacher, a priestess and just as a druidess. We have nothing like that in Quebec. It's amazing to have a physical place where I can just drop by and chat with fellow pagans, buy the stuff I need for my rituals and such, spend some time meditating in the temple if I want, and so on. Soon, I'll be able to make pagans more aware of druidry through that amazing place, because that's one of the best ways to reach them right now. The sense of community is amazing there! Druids are scattered around the province and country, and we're not even aware of each other. Someone, I could smell the OBOD vibe BIG time, donated several amazing books on druidry at the boutique a few weeks ago, and we don't even know who that is! I have no other occasions, for now, to gain experience in public rituals. Will I create the Druid Association of Quebec one day? Oh, you bet. But for now, the boutique is where I have made my place over the years, and if I want to keep being involved there... it means dealing with Marie-Renee's big personality.

There; you have more or less the whole story. Sorry for the lengthy post; it's hard to summarize 5 eventful years.

As for the ego thing... Transcending (not destroying...) the ego has been central in my spiritual journey, because by fear of making a mistake, by fear of being rejected, I am tempted to hide behind titles, appearances, or to shoot some kind of smoke screen in front of me without showing the real me. People have considered me very narcissistic, for years and years, because of that. I have been seriously insecure and needy for validation, too. Because she has been repeteadly making me remember those things (and my Guides too, believe me!!!), I have been able to transform and dare be more authentic, simple... just me. To love passionately with enough detachment so I no longer need the constant validation. The transformation has been physical, spiritual and psychological. The bardic initiation has been a huge catalyst for this.

Before, people commented what an extroverted, self-confident woman I seemed to be. Now, people comment on how I have such a tranquil and grounded energy, how I've changed. The confirmations of this keep coming, and the beauty of it moves me beyond words.

There, I've babbled way too much.


Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 13 Aug 2010, 21:22
by scopulus

Your last post with details givees indeed another light on the subject. However, nobody has the right to correct me on how I behave with other people I like to think. Perhaps because my ego is also needed. And if you need to transcent the ego I am not totally sure on that case neither. I do not believe that many great celt leaders were that oh so lovely people. Heck, we talk about human sacrifices, war, etc... think ego didn't partake in those decisions? I do agree we got to be humble towards nature. I do not agree we have to be humble towards people... In my eyes, people can be to harsh. I just be myself, even with the fire burning inside me and such, I would help one person, and ten, but I wont turn my hand if I see those people just like to abuse you , or me , or the ones I love. I agree... I am too one who like to make smoke up, creating mists.. it is part of my believes in my martial arts too. The less they know the right part, the better.
Ego serves us well: we build walls for other people, so we won't get hurt again. It is not that we don't want to get hurt, it is so we don't want to show our wounds, for a wound is seem as weak in this kind of society/culture we live in!
And by this: I am like a tree. Hard and rough on the outside, like the bark, soft and weak inside, so my fluids can continue to feed my organs, just like a tree.... ;)

just my opinion. Will be back after the weekend!


Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 13 Aug 2010, 21:41
by Zylah
@ Morgane: Understood - as I said, you are defining what you are willing to tolerate and why; and you have the right to do that. That would be the goal of the subject, I suppose - 'knowing your place'.

Blessings - Z

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 13 Aug 2010, 22:06
by treegod
Zylah wrote:@ Morgane: Understood - as I said, you are defining what you are willing to tolerate and why; and you have the right to do that. That would be the goal of the subject, I suppose - 'knowing your place'.

Blessings - Z
Very good point :D

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 14 Aug 2010, 14:58
by morgane_snowy_owl
I see we have different views about the ego. I really don't know which is more celtic (!), but I know mine definitely fits with the buddhist philosophy. As long as we're both happy, I see no problem! :D
Zylah wrote:@ Morgane: Understood - as I said, you are defining what you are willing to tolerate and why; and you have the right to do that. That would be the goal of the subject, I suppose - 'knowing your place'.

Blessings - Z
Zylah my dear, I had so much to explain in my last post that I didn't take the time to thank you for writing all the pearls of wisdom that you wrote. I've told you before and I tell you now, I love reading your posts and through them you have gained my respect. I know this sounds a bit cheesy, but I really wish we had the chance to have coffee one of these days! :D

Both times, I was annoyed when I read about you commenting on what I was willing to tolerate. I felt the need to defend myself and knew something was wrong. And after reading it for the second time, I made my decision. I wrote to Marie-Renee and explained a few things. I explained how her words affected me, how they went right in, how I had trouble distancing myself from her opinions and why. I told her I was also aware that meant me no longer consulting her on personal matters, even if has helped me a lot in the past. And I asked her to take her distance and stop making personal comments about me. She accepted.

If I want to grow spiritually with just my voice and the voice of my Guides inside my head, I must do that in order to stand for myself. I know I can't change her, but at least now I hope I'll just have to deal with a "bigger than life" person on comittees and such, not someone who knows me intimately and takes liberties because of that. After all, we all have to face these personalities at work, in our social network, and so on.

Therefore, not only do I know my place, I also know hers. Definitely not a friend, definitely not a mentor. Definitely the person in charge at a boutique where I'm involved. Definitely not the person in charge of ME. So say we all! :D

...and on another positive note, I wanted to let you know that my calling myself "druidess" on the boutique's facebook page reached its intended goal. Two pagans contacted me and want to know more about druidry and OBOD, and they had been looking for someone who could inform them better. :yay: I'll tell my seedgroup and we'll probably have tea together or something.

and now.. *rolls up sleeves* my dear husband has found HUGE baskets of Roma tomatoes at the farmer's market, so guess who'll be making tomato sauce this weekend? :yay:

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 14 Aug 2010, 21:58
by treegod
morgane_snowy_owl wrote:Treegod,
I see we have different views about the ego. I really don't know which is more celtic (!), but I know mine definitely fits with the buddhist philosophy. As long as we're both happy, I see no problem! :D


Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 14 Aug 2010, 23:07
by Zylah
Morgane - :hug: I hope you know the respect is mutual; you can probably feel that. And perhaps we *will* get to have coffee together one day, you never know! I'd love that. :java: :latte:

I knew you were annoyed, and when I posted I knew you *would* be annoyed; it was *not* my intention to annoy you, but if our positions were reversed I would certainly feel the same - best intentions notwithstanding. I debated about posting and when I did, I tried to be as non-intrusive as I could while saying what I honestly felt and thought. Thank you for looking past your annoyance; a lot of people can't. :shake:

As for the actions you've taken since, I'm so glad you used it all for your own good purposes; and congratulations on the growth and new potential you're already seeing - blessings with all of it, it's always exciting to have people ask questions and use you as a signpost, in a sense :where: . Reading your last post made my day brighter! :kissie:

{LOL, Treegod :-) }

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 16 Aug 2010, 13:23
by morgane_snowy_owl
and you say that I am a good psychologist? Tee hee, when you point the finger, look at the three other fingers pointing right back at you! :hug:

Oh my, sorry dear! That comment was for scopulus! :grin: It's his comment about trees that created the confusion, lol!



Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 16 Aug 2010, 13:39
by scopulus
Hello morgane ;)

Ok, didn't saw it was ment for me. Glad you got that straightened up ;)
Anyways: it is good we have different views, and it is good we can pinpoint it to one or other religion. I am no buddhist whatsoever, for it leans to close to catholism where sin and pain and suffering is central... :(

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 16 Aug 2010, 14:46
by celticmodes
Thanks, Morgane, for posting a more detailed explanation of the circumstances surrounding the events. I think I understand more about your friend now and definitely why she would strive to correct term usage that could differ from what would be expected. She is a person of authority to a lot of clients. She also seems bigger than life and a bit of a character which can be fun.

I think if I hung around someone like that, I'd be willing to forgive the side effects of a very passionate personality. What's most important here is you and your relationship to her. I would guess there is some interpersonal dynamics that you are both working through together as peers, regardless of external status.

When, in the past, I have had a confusing relationship with someone and I sensed there was something more beneath the surface, I would do this exercise. I'll try to explain it as best I can. I get in a quiet place and sit. I relax for a while until my mind is free enough to continue. I picture myself leaving my body and going to the other person. I then enter the other person's body and fill it up orienting myself as if I was their inner body. At the same time, I try my best to forget who I am as I am attempting to walk in someone else's shoes. When I do this, I get instant storylines, emotions, world-views about their reality that usually explains their behavior.

This is all done in love and I'm careful to check if it's ok with the other's inner self as I do it. The procedure can be a little jarring at first since there is usually a flood of information that's hard to process. Another positive side effect is it tends to show me my own "created reality" when I come back and reminds me of my own constructs that need work :-)

I'm a twin with a history of moving between my body and my brother's (in sleep) so I might be pre-disposed to this procedure but it's worth a try. I think what it does scientifically is just bend your brainwave patterns a bit to match theirs and then some type of communication takes place but what do I know?

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 16 Aug 2010, 15:32
by morgane_snowy_owl
scopulus wrote:Hello morgane ;)

Ok, didn't saw it was ment for me. Glad you got that straightened up ;)
Anyways: it is good we have different views, and it is good we can pinpoint it to one or other religion. I am no buddhist whatsoever, for it leans to close to catholism where sin and pain and suffering is central... :(
...not taking any chances, I decided to quote! :)

Sin, pain and suffering? Huh! I hadn't seen things like that, it's certainly an interesting point of view. Are you sure you're not talking about Hinduism? Although yeah, both discuss karmic debts and so on.

In a way, Hinduism, Buddhism and Druidism have very similar views of reincarnation, from what I understand from these philosophies... Remember how the gwersi explained it to us... that unless you have suffered through every single form of existence, you can't become human... I think it was quite literally how it was explained.

Nevertheless... I started integrating another angle to my view of therapy... and I think that, although Pearls is right by saying "either way, it hurts" (if you push it down and try to ignore it, you'll suffer, and if you choose to confront it and heal it, it will hurt too!), I'm also trying to consider that all learning experiences don't have to be painful. Experience and learning can also occurr through joy and pleasure.

What I really, really love about buddhism is the importance it places on inner peace, and outer peace for that matter. Compassion has been a revelation to me since I started to grasp its deeper meaning. It's profoundly inspiring, profoundly transforming, and druidism really fits with that view as well. Inner peace, and its deeper meaning, is one of the greatest gifts druidry has given me so far...

My two cents...

Whoa, you've certainly taken "walk a mile in your shoes" to a whole new level! :wow: I think that, before you attempt something like that, you must be very sure that you can make the difference between what your intuition is telling you, and what your desires and mental tell you. I mean, it would be easy to feel that someone is willing to let you in just because you so strongly feel that your intentions are good and you really want to create a positive outcome. I find that to be a wonderful exercise, it must be hugely informative... but if it was me I'd prefer to ask the person's permission verbally, and ask the person to do the same with me.

That being said...

A client just finished her session with me. I talked about compassion with her. And what you wrote makes me realize that I can use my own recommendations to help me deal, emotionally speaking, with Marie-Renee's personality. I told my client to look for situations in which, for similar or different reasons, she felt the same feelings as the other person. This is what compassion is about: because you yourself have felt the same way in your life or in a past incarnation, you can deeply understand what the other person is feeling, not just intellectually, but emotionally as well. If I can deeply feel compassion when I am at a meeting or interacting with her, then the frustrations will be kept to a minimal level. The moment it becomes personal, the moment it starts clashing with my personal expectations, there will be room for very negative emotions. I want to keep my inner peace whenever I'm in her presence. Emotions can happen, they're normal, but beyond them, given that I'm not my emotions, I want to keep my inner peace.

Again, my two cents! :)


Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 16 Aug 2010, 16:23
by celticmodes
"I mean, it would be easy to feel that someone is willing to let you in just because you so strongly feel that your intentions are good and you really want to create a positive outcome." Are you saying that humans, even with the best intentions, are not above lying to themselves? (made myself laugh)

You are, of course, right. I don't really think about it too much anymore. When I'm in that mode of "help strikes again", my emotional state is so different that I can tell I'm attached and wouldn't even attempt it for fear of getting bad information.

I really can't say I would ask the person, ever, since it's their mind/personality I'm trying to get around. I don't view the exercise literally, meaning I'm not moving my soul into theirs. I see it as instructing the other parts of my brain to give me information it already has access to. The relationship is already there, so to speak. We would already be "in bed" from a psychic point of view.

If I believed in an astral version of the exercise, then the moral/ethical questions would be relevant and worth investigating. Since I've lived my life scanning people and regard equal to smelling them, or looking at them, I don't attach boundaries to the psychic. I'm weird, though, so maybe I should look into that :???:

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 20 Aug 2010, 15:19
by morgane_snowy_owl, I must be doing something right... :wow: :cloud9:

...for the Gods sent me a third person yesterday, who came to me to ask about paganism and receive guidance... again, I depersonalized it, talked about my seedgroup and offered her to join the other two for a friendly tea with us...

Our seedgroup meeting was amazing, last Wednesday, and so inspiring. :cloud9: I've been on a peace and happiness could since. Our seedgroup is alive, and for its second year, will be more organized, involved and active. We talked about the situation at the shop, our experience of it... someone cleverly suggested that we attend all the meetings but don't attend one Sabbat public ritual out of four, each year. It allows us to really identify ourselves not as disciples of the boutique and its philosophy, but as a druidic seedgroup who wants to be involved in the community and give its help to the public rituals. A druidic seedgroup who is an entity of its own and has activities of its own. It felt so right that I had goosebumps... :warm:

... not to mention that I'm seeing the first seeds of a growing druidic community in Montreal and Quebec in general (not just OBOD, but other traditions too), it's SO inspiring! :yay:

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 25 Jan 2011, 16:47
by murmur
morgane_snowy_owl wrote:by fear of making a mistake, by fear of being rejected, I am tempted to hide behind titles, appearances, or to shoot some kind of smoke screen in front of me without showing the real me...

Before, people commented what an extroverted, self-confident woman I seemed to be. Now, people comment on how I have such a tranquil and grounded energy, how I've changed. The confirmations of this keep coming, and the beauty of it moves me beyond words.
I was frantically searching the forum with the word "mentor" and I came across this thread. I skimmed the page and the words above just caught my eyes. It touched me so much and I know this will be in my mind for many days to come. Thank you morgane, and Lady Serendipity. :)

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 25 Jan 2011, 18:04
by Huathe
Mentioning the heirarchy of OBOD. I think it takes a druid course ranked druid to start a new grove. But any ranking can start a seed group. Can someone shed light on this or correct me?

Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 26 Jan 2011, 00:35
by Attila
Well I just found out I am a druid on facebook :grin:

Btw my username on many forums is ‘Quetzalcoatl’, I couldn’t believe it when I took a test ‘what dragon are you’ and from all the dragons that could have come up it was that one.

As for the apparent conflict in druidry, well if we can get past all the labels perhaps there wouldn’t be much left of that. I feel we are being reborn generally, not just this order, so there is bound to be some conflicts while we reinvent ourselves ~ although I feel conflict is to strong a word. I don’t see why obod is ‘neo-druidry’ why not just druidry?



Re: Knowing your place...

Posted: 26 Jan 2011, 01:47
by DJ Droood
Attila wrote:I don’t see why obod is ‘neo-druidry’ why not just druidry?
I think it is just for the sake of clarity in discussions, to differentiate between now and the Iron Age...although you are right..there was never such a thing as "druidry" until relatively recently, so "druidry" assumes modernity, and doesn't need the "neo"....there were, of course, ancient druids, but as far as I know, nobody knows what, if any, religion they practiced...doubt if it was "druidry".