The last Celtic god

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chimera
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The last Celtic god

Post by chimera » 30 Mar 2013, 09:30

The chain of authentic links to the Celts is broken, and the Middle East gods died under Muhammed. The Indo European gods linger on in Indian SE Asia where Indra has sacred pools, with the lake goddess Danu. And here may be a genuine connection with Celts.
Belenos of the sun and springs of water has links with Baal:
[The first means spring as many places in Lebanon are named, and the second word means irrigation (سقي).Combined in one (Ain-Ebel) the two words mean the spring of irrigation. Usually "Ibl" is opposed to Baal, the greater God associated to his female divinity Astarte, or Diane, Goddess of fertility and hunting in the old cananean religions. "Ibl", being an agriculture system by which water is draining, Baal represents the rain water of God.]
Baal as sun god is the son of El of thunder and storms, which is also Indra. "Baal / Bel " is from the root *bal meaning "strong. mighty". Hindi balin means "warrior" and Balin was a king in Pali-Sanskrit Buddhist texts. This takes the word "bal" to the Celtic form "belen".
Sanskrit influenced Indonesian language and Balinese where "balin" means "warrior". There are about 200 Indonesian words in north Australian languages and it appears that Balinese Hindu teachers sailed a ship to east Australia according to legend which fits with Old Balinese language. (This is a long story and I'm giving just the outline).
A living ceremony today is the Ring Balin (Skt / Balinese "with. warrior"), a ritual procession along the Darling river to South Australia where the warrior-creator formed the rivers and rose to heaven. There are several Sanskrit names and Vedic themes in this legend of the Balin.
If it interests you then I will put up the blogs and details.

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Re: The last Celtic god

Post by chimera » 31 Mar 2013, 23:41

Well you must be interested or you wouldn't be here, right? Indra had a son named Balin who was a warrior. And the balin warrior Indra made a sacred spring:
Pura Tirta Empul, the holy springs temple in - Discover Java and Bali
http://www.discover-java-and-bali.com/tirta-empul.html
The holy water of Tirta empul can heal some sickness. Visit this ... Bathing serves a sacred purpose and follows a ritual of offerings, prayers and blessing.

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Re: The last Celtic god

Post by chimera » 09 May 2013, 23:48

Beltane is expressed in a Scottish Gaelic term bhealtuinn bhailceach _ Gaelic Dictionary. Armstrong 1825. It means "rainy May" from tuinn "fixed, holding, top", bhealtuinn "May". Bhailceach is from each "person, man", meaning "strong man. flood rain".
So bheal is " god of Beltane" and bhail means "strong", as in Baal / bal- "strong" god of rain. A bhailceach is a strong, straight-bodied man which suggests the May-pole, with ribbons of the rainbow colours. Bathing in waters of springs
(of Spring?) and rivers also suggests druids bathing at dawn like brahmins in rivers.
Then there may have been a continuity of tradition linking the Bal- deity Belenos with Baal and the "balin" Indra. This would have extended from Ireland across India to Bali.

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Re: The last Celtic god

Post by chimera » 12 May 2013, 06:06

Anyway, to cut a long story short, the word Beltane is from tuinn from the root *nes meaning " to join. be concealed from" , so "possessing. owning", tuineadh. In Syria , Baal was the Lord, Rider on the clouds. Hebrew language used baal to mean "owner", so Gaelic Bale tuinn re-inforces the Semitic idea of "owner".
McBain dictionary: tuineadh "an abode, possession, Irish tuinidhe, possession , Early Irish tunide; also tuineadh (Irish and Gaelic): *to-nes-, root nes as in còmhnuidh,."

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Re: The last Celtic god

Post by Corwen » 12 May 2013, 19:44

The commonly accepted etymologies are that Baal was from a Semitic root meaning 'Lord' or 'Master' and related to Hebrew words for husband and man, whilst the Bel in Beltain, Belenos etc was derived from a Celtic root word Belo meaning bright, ultimately from a common Indo-European root connected with notions of whiteness and brightness, so most people conclude that the two are in no way connected with each other except for the fact that they happen to sound vaguely similar when spoken by an English speaker.

Personally I think that the line of connection to ancient Celtic deities is far from broken. Many became saints and still have a place in the spiritual lives of Celtic peoples, others have come down to us in story and song or folk custom. They thus still have a place in our culture these days even without looking around for Semitic resemblances or trying to self consciously reconstruct anything from the distant past.
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Re: The last Celtic god

Post by chimera » 13 May 2013, 00:51

Hullo Corwen
Thanks for replying even if it is a slow clap.
Although Brigid for example has some Celtic pagan observance at fires on 1 February, it is limited compared with the Beltane May festivals. The Church's Saint Brigid is a contrived mix and maybe Brigid the pagan was not too keen on becoming baptised. In Israel, the Baal worship at the Jerusalem Temple of the Jews had some bad press.
"Baal" and "Belenos / Bheal" do sound vaguely similar, as do the various Celtic ways to say "Saxon"_ "Sasnaeg Sassenach". The definitions show what is meant. So I posted the activities of Baal / Bheal which match.
The readiness of Celts to join Roman gods with Celtic gods, and then Church saints with Celtic gods, indicates that influences in pagan times may well have been inter-active. Baal was known in Carthage which had colonies in Spain where Celts settled. Baal was in Asia Minor where Celts ruled Galatia. (It's thought these Celts migrated from south France).
There was a female Baal of springs of water, who was mistress, owner, of the house, and goddess of fertile crops which may indicate a Brigit of springs and Spring, and partner of Bheal of Beltane.
This relates to protection of river environment today (as in your blog) and Ring Balin (for another post later on).

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Re: The last Celtic god

Post by elementalheart » 13 May 2013, 07:43

I don't know much about the subject you're describing, but from a purely local understanding what you're calling Beltane translates as Bealltainn or Beallteinne. The origin of the first part is unclear and may be all you are claiming, but the second as far as I know comes from Teinne the fire and has nothing to do with ownership.

My own completely non-academic opinion on it is that the word Bealach in Gaelic means a gap or pass in a mountain, a gorge, a breach in a wall or fence, or a gateway - the Irish comparable word I believe is Belach. The tradition at this fire festival was to drive livestock, particularly cattle, through a gap in the fire to cleanse and bless them (health and fertility) prior to taking them out from in-bye winter quarters up to the shielings on the mountain. People would also walk through that gap in the fire for purification and fertility. So to me (and this is no argument to anyone else's opinion, however scholarly or otherwise) the easiest meaning would be to link Beall as a root connected to space or gap to pass between, and Tainn/Teinne to fire, and the festival as one that provides the gateway between winter and summer at every level. Thus I prefer to honour the traditions of our ancestors without needing to step away into gods/goddesses or any other tradition.

As I say, just my approach to things, keeping it simple. I completely respect anyone's right to a more diverse set of opinions to my own, since I am not even a native Gaelic speaker let alone a scholar of the Gaelic language and linguistics, but what I believe makes enough sense to me not to need more. Maybe they all came from an earlier root, maybe not, it is the essence of the ritual that I connect to, and how it is significant to this land.
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Re: The last Celtic god

Post by chimera » 13 May 2013, 11:59

Interesting comment. There seem to be 2 ideas going on here.
bealtuinn
May-day, Irish béalteine, Early Irish beltene, belltaine, "bright-fire", Anglo-Saxon bael, Lithuanian baltas, white. , . Gael, : "Eadar dà theine Bhealltuinn" - Between two Beltane fires.
So it's Beal "fire", Bheall "strong" ("bright").
tein / theinne "fire", and tuinn"fixed, possessing".
.( McBain says Bealtuinn / Bealtein are sometimes the same thing).


Bealach "pass, gap" is from ach "also, besides, except" : "Fire besides". Druid am beal "Druid blocks the way". This seems to mean the gap "beside the fire", "except for the fire", so they are different although related.
Baal and balin Indra both have the lightning symbol, as fire, which then extends to a weapon of battle and also brings rain from clouds. The local Celtic tradition would be significant to each land (and maybe each tribe). Maybe the local use is enhanced by the wider scope of the whole extension.

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Re: The last Celtic god

Post by chimera » 14 May 2013, 10:27

[In the second millennium BCE, Astarte was, like Anat, a war goddess of the Egyptians (Patai 1990:56)..She was also an important deity of the Phoenician towns of Tyre and Sidon, whence she and her veneration spread with Phoenician merchants throughout the Mediterranean (Patai 1990:55-66).

The Ugaritic poems present Astarte as a model of beauty and usually associate her closely with Baal, the storm god, for she consistently supports his cause (Coogan 1978:61, 65, 74, 89, 116). On at least five occasions the mythic material pairs her with Anat, perhaps an indication that the two goddesses were already beginning to meld into one another. Yet, since Astarte's name occurs quite often in offering and deity lists, it is clear that she had an important, if not central place in ritual and sacrifice (Olmo Lete 1999:71).]
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Could Anat be connected with Paps of Ana, the Irish maternal symbol? Astarte the partner of Baal had a shrine in Etruscan Italy, next to Gaul Celts of the Alpine region.
[The Pyrgi Tablets, found in a 1964 excavation of a sanctuary of ancient Pyrgi on the Tyrrhenian coast of Italy . .are three golden leaves that record a dedication made around 500 BC by Thefarie Velianas, king of Caere, to the Phoenician goddess ʻAshtaret. Pyrgi was the port of the southern Etruscan town of Caere. Two of the tablets are inscribed in the Etruscan language, the third in Phoenician.

These writings are important in providing both a bilingual text that allows researchers to use knowledge of Phoenician to interpret Etruscan, and evidence of Phoenician or Punic influence in the Western Mediterranean. .
The tablets are now held at the National Etruscan Museum, Villa Giulia, Rome.
Etruscan text:
Ita tmia icac he
ramašva vatieχe
Unial astres θemia

This temple and these statues are dedicated to Uni-Astre, .(built by the clanspeople.
Tiberius Velianas the pleasing aedicula has given).
***
The word vatiexe here means "dedicated" and is probably equal to Sanskrit vatika "an enclosed hermitage garden, walled village of a temple-site.", vataka) "wat", as at Angkor 'Wat", Cambodia with a lake built by Indra.
***

Phoenician text
l-rbt l-ʻštrt,
To lady Ashtarot,
ʼšr qdš ʼz, ʼš pʻl, w-ʼš ytn tbryʼ wlnš mlk ʻl kyšryʼ.
This is the holy place, which was made..]
***********
Astarte is the Greek name of the Mesopotamian (ie Assyrian, Akkadian, Babylonian) Semitic goddess Ishtar... names associated with the chief goddess or female divinity of those peoples.. She is found as Ugaritic ʻṯtrt ("ʻAṯtart" or "ʻAthtart"); Phoenician "ʻštrt" (ʻAshtart); and Hebrew (Ashtoret, singular, or Ashtarot, plural), , the grammatically masculine name of the goddess Ishtar; the form Astartu is used to describe her age. The name appears also in Etruscan as Uni-Astre (Pyrgi Tablets), Ishtar or Ashtart._ wiki.

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Re: The last Celtic god

Post by chimera » 16 May 2013, 07:16

Indra is linked to Bhealtuinn "May possessing" and "floods" of Bhealceach as the Hindu god's name means:
indu 'bright drop" water, spark .
ra "possessing".
:old: :tiphat: :warm:

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