Druidry in modern politics

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Davin Raincloud
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby Davin Raincloud » 16 Aug 2015, 15:15

Yes, I get that.


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Hereward
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby Hereward » 16 Aug 2015, 16:42

@nollaig

So you're saying that you're too inimidated by others expressing their strong opinions to dare to express your own politics? Isn't that where our problems start?

I may not share your opinions, but I'd defend to the death your right to say them - paraphrasing a bit but that's a quote from somewhere :D
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby DaRC » 17 Aug 2015, 12:16

However, getting to Druidic Principles is interesting
I would like to see a world where everyone has due respect for Nature and every gift She bestows upon us. What form would that take?
I would like Economic theory, and thus translated into taxes, that include socio-ecological costs.
This money would then be used to fund initiatives to protect the eco-systems affected.

However, I get Nollaig's point that Druids have wide shades on the political spectrum and too often a 'discussion' descends into flame wars.

For example :duck: I believe that global vegetarianism (as promoted by the UK Green Party) as anti-green as it would force intense farming methods thus damaging the ecology.
Whereas I would have a policy of encouraging local organic mixed farming, which requires people to eat some meat, and taxing food miles to enable local organic farmers to compete.
I will now have to run and hide from the PETA vegetarian lynch mob :blink:
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby Carbonscorpion » 30 Aug 2015, 16:33

There is a conflict between what people want, what they need, and what can actually be done in a sustainable way. If people don't have basic needs met, they're not going to be interested in being told what they can't do. When they have plenty, people are not interested in being told they can have less.

I think the need is to make sure that people have basic needs met, then we can educate them, because there are more of the needy, we can shift the centre of mass of the discussion.
Well said. I have a stable life and family, and have the economic and time opportunity to educate myself and draw my own conclusions on how the world 'should' work and live my own life to that end. But at the end of the day I'm a monkey with pants and if I was struggling to provide for my family, had debilitating health concerns, or feared for my safety on a daily basis my priorities would be different.

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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby Sciethe » 30 Aug 2015, 18:15

@nollaig
So you're saying that you're too inimidated by others expressing their strong opinions to dare to express your own politics? Isn't that where our problems start?
I may not share your opinions, but I'd defend to the death your right to say them - paraphrasing a bit but that's a quote from somewhere :D
Yes, that is pretty much exactly what I am saying - Conservative, especially socially Conservative opinions are generally unwanted, unappreciated, and met with aggressive hostility within the neo-Pag community. I would however not go so far as to say that I am intimidated; rather, that my time and mental health are better served not engaging in the polemics of essentialist claims of any binaristic worldview.

Regarding rhetoric about people 'defending my right to speak my mind'... I've been throw under the bus enough to know that this is just another sad political cliche.

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This exchange largely encapsulates the debate side of this thread (the other side is how Druids can and do express themselves politically: as a matter of simple fact).

Nollaig speaks the truth and expresses the reality of Pagan politics generally, which on the whole espouses a general dislike of things mid-road and conservative however pale blue it may be, and the group mind is inclined to press for more left wing thinking. Those with apolitical and middle of the road political attitudes do not always get the respect due to them for their personal choices. This is wrong in my view, Druidism/Paganism has no necessary connection to a particular political viewpoint. There is no essential connection with being (for instance) politically radical and being pagan-spiritual. That image is dangerously close to becoming a cliché. It's about the person and how they weave the threads of their life in the best way they can. For themselves, not to fit an image or to please others. The thing we as Druids really do hold in common is being true to ourselves. The other thing (a necessary corollary if we are ever to work together) is respecting the choices of others even if we don't understand them, and most of us here are pretty good at that, thankfully.

And trust me Hereward, Nollaig is not the sort to be intimidated :grin:

I'll reiterate my personal position to save scrolling back up- pressure groups about (often environmental) things we individually care about is a more Druid friendly way forward than party politics. I feel most Druids can do more good using their energy influencing the politicians rather than joining in with them, and I see effective action everywhere I look. Look harder and you see a Druid behind, starting or helping to direct a great many environmental movements of value. Being political is a valid choice too, don't get me wrong. It's just not a necessity or even a good choice for many.
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby Hereward » 13 Sep 2015, 19:22

Thanks for the thoughtful response.

I've been thinking about this issue quite a bit as I watch all that is happening in the world at the moment with refugees, climate change, economic worries etc, and it seems to me that the big problem - especially on the internet, but also in politics - is that it's all polemic; I'm right, you're wrong attitudes. It's impossible to have a discussion any more whereby each side talks and then listens, absorbing what the other has to say and gradually moving to a consensus, a common understanding.

Without choosing any political position, is this not what druidism advocates?
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby Sciethe » 14 Sep 2015, 01:00

Thanks for the thoughtful response.
I've been thinking about this issue quite a bit as I watch all that is happening in the world at the moment with refugees, climate change, economic worries etc, and it seems to me that the big problem - especially on the internet, but also in politics - is that it's all polemic; I'm right, you're wrong attitudes. It's impossible to have a discussion any more whereby each side talks and then listens, absorbing what the other has to say and gradually moving to a consensus, a common understanding.
Without choosing any political position, is this not what druidism advocates?
Nicely put, yes, that's pretty much it. Our problem as Druids I think is that there is no stable point, we might advocate and even achieve consensus, but there is momentum in every change and the pendulum keeps swinging. Just when you thought you'd cracked it everything changes. If we have a political role it is probably about ameliorating these swings.
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby MoonPryderi » 14 Sep 2015, 19:39

I think we can be politically active by the actions we choose to make in our daily lives. But I also go beyond that as much as I can in terms of communication. Its part of my way of standing up for the things I believe in (in the sense of ecology etc) but when it comes to actually entering the 'political arena' I think its vital to also spend a lot of time in quiet personal contemplation and visiting my favourite places in nature in order to maintain my own balance and peace
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby malcolmb » 14 Sep 2015, 20:18

With some trepidation :duck: I find myself wondering if as a Druid, politics actually matter. Elsewhere in this Forum, I have been worrying about draft proposals by Government that seem to seek to damage what I believe is the necessary separation between Faith and State. First and foremost, Druidry is a belief. I would not expect the Government to tell me how to follow my belief. Therefore equally as Druid, I should not tell the Government how to do their job. Druidry is not and never should be a political force.

It is of course the nature of human beings that personal views influence their belief and their belief influence their personal views. But I think we should be very careful of asking questions such as what is the correct political party for a Druid. Politics is a matter for a citizen, not an aspect of a person's belief. I do appreciate that was not the original question in this thread. But answers do seem to be tending towards such a question. We do not hold a particular political view because we are Druid. We hold a particular political view because we are citizens with values; the fact that those values have lead us to Druidry is a separate issue.
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby DJ Droood » 15 Sep 2015, 11:50

We do not hold a particular political view because we are Druid. We hold a particular political view because we are citizens with values; the fact that those values have lead us to Druidry is a separate issue.
I think you make fair points, Malcolm...and it is also a remindere that druidry really is an individual path of discovery, not a monolithic voting block (not even a lego-sized block). Although most probably "dress to the left", druids are all over the political map and no government or political party represents us and we (as a spiritual movement) don't lobby for any particular party or government or even nation. (although individual druids may make the choice to do so)
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby Whitemane » 15 Sep 2015, 23:43

With the defiant lack of central authority in modern paganism, I think we are free to follow our conscience in politics. However, when there may be a threat to a group that includes us, which could include any anti-minority action, we need to act together, build consensus, and establish unity in thought and action.
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Re: Druidry in modern politics

Postby Green Raven » 16 Sep 2015, 08:12

With the defiant lack of central authority in modern paganism, I think we are free to follow our conscience in politics. However, when there may be a threat to a group that includes us, which could include any anti-minority action, we need to act together, build consensus, and establish unity in thought and action.
Very much this.

I am uninterested in the governance of states and the furtherance of personal power, however very much for the advancing the protection of the planet’s bionetwork and of associated principles, so the practice of social politics:

“forming alliances, exercising power and protecting and advancing particular ideas or goals. Generally, this includes anything affecting one's daily life, such as the way an office or household is managed, or how one person or group exercises influence over another.” (Wikipedia, extrapolating from Political Geography 2nd ed. J Painter, A Jeffrey, 2009)

is certainly something that a modern-day druid could put their shoulder behind, in a thoughtful, positive and peaceful way.
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