defining shamanism

A forum for discussion of the Shamanic path.
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Wolfwalker
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Postby Wolfwalker » 29 Jan 2004, 22:35

Siho, Kemo Sabe,
Let me offer a word of appology... I took the general tone of your post wrong. Second, there as a point of confusion as I took your sig line as (some here) sign their posts, as do I... and having for several months on another board interaced with a person who posted using the name Namaste as their handle, not as the Hindu greeting and show off respect, I was out of line to make the assumption I did In your Profile, there's a space to put your sig on posts that eliminates this confucion btw.
Broghan made an excellent point on these boards a couple of months ago... that we are lacking, when you consider real face-to-face verbal communication between humans, a large part is polayed by vocal inflections (which will often tell if someones' sincere, sarcastic, angry, joking, and theiir gender & age); the other aspect he said was the visual cues such as body language, facial expressions, presence of others as we speak, etc. Deprived of these visual and auditory cues, we have only about 20% of the functionality we depend on in day-to-day verbal interaction.
Talk about being handcuffed by our words. It is very easy to misunderstand others, the intensity they are speaking with and often whether they are saying something tongue in cheek or seriously.
When I receive a reply, pm or am doing a read-through of the areas I moderate and see what I feel is a new poster maybe pushing a little too hard, being a bit harsh, or upsetting others, I see one of the moderators roles as stepping in to amelioate the situation.
By the way, That was a typical old grey-haired -fart long winded telling off, not a rant Kemo Sabe... :lol: Believe, ask some of the long-term posting folks around here... if I rant even ones offline at the time hear it! Those are the times when the wolf howls loudly and it takes a few friends or an Admin to shut me up... unless I'm scrapping, and then nothing only locking my access is gonna stop me! I don't go off often and it doesn't tend to last long is the up side of that one... meanwhile accept my appology for the misunderstanding [return Namaste]... enjoy your time here.
Blessings, Peter :fire:
Love people and use things, NOT use people and love things...

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Dreamworld
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Postby Dreamworld » 03 Feb 2004, 20:57

Hello all,
My two pence :
I heard that Shaman was siberian for 'Skywalker' and that Luke Skywalker out of star wars was named because of it !Western Culture this sort of thing is not respected AT ALL ! and confined to a region of foolishness and fairy stories, and much 'New Age ' culture is abnout as helpful as a cardboard condom . Now I know this might be a vbit off topic, but its sort of not......>>
Last edited by Dreamworld on 23 Feb 2004, 12:38, edited 1 time in total.

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Kemo Sabe
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Postby Kemo Sabe » 03 Feb 2004, 22:17

Peace, Wolfwalker.

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Wolfwalker
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Postby Wolfwalker » 03 Feb 2004, 22:57

Dreamworld,
IMHO, I'd say that like many children, the writer had their openness as well as their ability to imagine and see, the writer of this 'lost' the ability as they grew up and was told what we can and cannot do... As we become more "rational" we discard much of what we could believe as "naive children"... often the child can see what the adult cannot, because it has been conditioned out of us. It is a great dishonour we do to our young people. One of many.
blessings, Peter
Love people and use things, NOT use people and love things...

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Postby Azrienoch » 03 Feb 2004, 23:44

I work with mentally handicapped adults.
For a long time, I pondered what it meant to hold on to the child within, and I came to my own conclusions. But after a while of seeing the people I work with, I've redefined the term down to nearly nothing. You see, it's wonderful and nessesary to be "child-like" when you are a child. It shapes your future and how you will behave and react and such.
But if you spend too long without moving on to the next steps, your body goes haywire. It doesn't react to things the way it should, many times not reacting at all. All because it's still trying to develop and shape the future. Not only that, but even if you don't maintain a mind of a child throughout your better years, they will come back, unwantedly, in the form of a senile old person.
Let me make it clear that I do indeed understand your frustration. Like I said, I searched for a long time.
Here's what I did; I had to redefine and define even further my goals of self-exploration. Instead of trying to find the child again, I focused on what I had been granted from my childhood mind. I focused on creativity, the drawing of new ideas from that childhood foundation. The idea here being that when you know exactly what you want, it is easier to find.
But, hey, it's just a thought.

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Wolfwalker
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Postby Wolfwalker » 04 Feb 2004, 02:33

I was just meaning that with the loss of innocence and coming of "knowledge" that it is sometimes very unfortunate that some but not all people lose their ability to see through the child's eyes. That does not mean to, hold back the whole person but rather to retain a part of the old. Much after the fashion we say if it isn't broken, why fix it? The strong creative powers of many artists is not somehing they discovered in their adulthood, but a talent or gift retained and focussed, refined and grown in it's own right from their childhood onwards instead of abandoned.
blessings, Peter
Love people and use things, NOT use people and love things...

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Dreamworld
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Postby Dreamworld » 04 Feb 2004, 15:07

hi guys,
i apreciate what your saying, but what i am on about really has nothing to do with 'seeing with the eyes of a child' nor do i believe this ability is permanently lost, nor was i a child when i lost it. In a weird sort of way i believe we are dreaming right now, but we're not aware of it.

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Postby Loosh » 04 Feb 2004, 18:17

Dreamworld:
no need to wake up. During the time you could "fly" there was a link to your higher mind that you feel has been temporarily broken. Maybe as you have grown the challenge is to add another "color" to your rainbow bridge--another link to the higher mind. Or perhaps the new task is to discover another element. From air to earth or fire or water? I believe we set ourselves challenges and tasks for learning so that we grow in soul-knowledge. Time to form new questions. It never stops...
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Dreamworld
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Postby Dreamworld » 04 Feb 2004, 18:38

Dreamworld:
no need to wake up. During the time you could "fly" there was a link to your higher mind that you feel has been temporarily broken. Maybe as you have grown the challenge is to add another "color" to your rainbow bridge--another link to the higher mind. Or perhaps the new task is to discover another element. From air to earth or fire or water? I believe we set ourselves challenges and tasks for learning so that we grow in soul-knowledge. Time to form new questions. It never stops...

Yes something like that i think

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Dreamworld
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Postby Dreamworld » 04 Feb 2004, 22:55

Grayeagle,

Frank is saying that he has found websites that have the stuff about sharks on them, word for word, that you just presented as your own. It's one thing to give us bits of universal wisdom which might be sort of like other things you can find on the internet, and quite another thing to COPY A WEBSITE and paste it here, not telling us where you got it. As he says, it is extremely disrespectful of the original author who took the time, thought and effort to write these things down. Unless you can respond to this, I will not be so interested in anything else you have to say here.
Today, I walk a new step forward on my sacred path of this milleniium. There are fewer and fewer Elders, as our age progresses with time ....
I feel blessed because of Creator and Earth Mothers giving ....

This new step does not mean that I will be passing on new wisdom, just a little gratitude for what my path so far has been.

It would be good if more people would embrace spirituality and slow down to reflect on it’s feeling and meaning and not who wrote it ....

I am concerned about the young ones. The adults are not being responsible role models and more of the youth are learning from their music, television and of the changing times, they feel it is all right to live a life driven by self indulgence. Love to this generation is a bodily function, driven by base instincts.

I feel that positive change in society is not tempered by the influence of high morals and social responsibility.

It is time to draw a line in the sand and bring the people’s values and traditions into consideration .... There is not an adult agenda for the young ones. The adults themselves are in a frenetic pursuit of pleasure and self indulgence .... Their pace of life is frantic and family concerns are subordinate to the technology and recreation.

If I make this walk ten more years, I do not expect to see a favorable outcome, that the people’s will be able to retain to their ability of control and self determination ....

It is good to share a good home and meal with my wife Little Squirrel. But my heart is heavy, because of the belief that the earths people have, that the evil on Earth Mother outweighs the good of Creator.

There is a lack of basic facilities, needed for the teachings of the young ones and people of the community, to help them feel that this is not true.

I am a messanger not the message and I feel that people should start to see the message given, not the messanger that is giving the message.

If you and frank feel that you sould not read the way I present a message, that is a choice you two will need to make for yourself, walk with peace.

:fire: Creator as Chief,
Grayeagle
Hi Grayeagle,
I noticed your answer to this question was a little vague, you talk about your elders quite a lot, what exactly is your ancestry ?

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Postby EarthWard » 05 Feb 2004, 23:44

I think GreyEagle has left which I am a little upset about. I spoke to him a couple of times before the "Plagiarism scandal of 2004."
He was always very warm and friendly and I believe that he was really trying to help and from some of the responses that he got it looked like he did. I am glad that Frank discovered his misuse of other peoples words. I just did not want him to be booed off of the boards for it because like I said, he did care. So that is why I stood up for him. I thought that he could "chip away at that mountain" as he said and continue to help with his own words. But he left. And that did not help anybody but himself. I still blame myself for the reason that Chalcedoni left and I am very upset about that. The Celts had Warriors and healers.
They did not always agree about everything, but they needed each other all the same. Healers need warriors to fight for them, and warriors need healers when they got struck down in battle. That is the way of things.
Like I said, I just hate that the whole thing happened period.

As far as ancestry, most of my family were dirt farmers. My ancestry is buried in the land where my father was raised and before they moved to that land most of our "tree limbs" were cut off during the Civil War. So I cannot trace my ancestry back more than two hundred or so years. Even if I could I doubt that it would be that impressive. But because I have no ancestry does that mean that my words carry less weight? I think that is why Grey copied those words and posted them. Most of us only believe it if it comes from some famous linage or tribe. But the words are still true, we just would not have believed it as much if we did not think that they were coming from some wise old Cherokee man. Like Kemo Sabe said, we never know who it is sitting behind a computer screen.

I feel better now for getting that off of my chest. Guilt is a very heavy load to carry.
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Postby Dreamworld » 06 Feb 2004, 18:04

Hi guys,
Earthward - don't be so ridiculous, of course you have ancestry ! Otherwise you wouldn't be here. Just because you don't know the names of them doesn't mean they don't exist. For all you know they could be watching over you right now getting upset at your lack of belief ! As for Grayeagle, if he's genuine he'll come back, if not - no loss, this stuff is hard enough without people being deceptive. don't feel guilty, demanding people are honest is nothing to feel guilty about.

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Postby Wolfwalker » 06 Feb 2004, 21:44

And the moderator seconds that... :-D
Love people and use things, NOT use people and love things...

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EarthWard
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Postby EarthWard » 06 Feb 2004, 23:40

Thanks ya'. I do respect and honor my ancestors. My point was lost a little, but no matter.
Carry on if you would. :D
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Postby Grayeagle » 07 Feb 2004, 16:13

If I do not want what you want, try not to tell me that my want is wrong. If I believe other than you, at least pause, reflect, before you correct my views and actions.

If my emotion is less than yours or more, given the circumstances, try not to ask me to feel more strongly or weakly.

If I act or fail to act in the manner of your secretive plot or scheme of action, let me be and learn from my action. I do not, ask you to understand me, that will come only if you stop trying to change me into a copy of you.

If I had been allowed any of my own beliefs or actions, then you might have opened yourself so that someday these things of myself may not seem so wrong and may appear right, even if it had been just for me.

If you had recognize my beliefs, this would have been the first step in understanding the message that I bring. This dosen’t mean that you may not have been irritated or disappointed from my messages given.

The deviation from what you desired, expected, or was required in order to gratify your own sudden wish or urge that prompts your unpremeditated act or feelings, that you prefer or favor one thing rather than another.

In understanding me you need to understand my differences and the way my people teach compared to yours. You people need to stop seeking to change me and my people, preserve and even nuture some of our differences.

Creator as Chief,
Grayeagle
American Indian

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Selene
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Postby Selene » 07 Feb 2004, 16:40

All good words. The author expands on this in "Different Drummers" at http://keirsey.com/Drummers.html.
"I've learned so much from my mistakes...I'm thinking of making few more."

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Postby Merlyn » 07 Feb 2004, 16:48

Here's what I did; I had to redefine and define even further my goals of self-exploration. Instead of trying to find the child again, I focused on what I had been granted from my childhood mind. I focused on creativity, the drawing of new ideas from that childhood foundation. The idea here being that when you know exactly what you want, it is easier to find.
But, hey, it's just a thought.

Good thoughts. keep it up and dream on, dream untl your dream comes true. (aerosmith)
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Dyro, Dduw, dy nawdd;
ac yn nawdd, nerth;
ac yn nerth, ddeall;
ac yn neall, gwybod;
ac o wybod, gwybod yn gyfiawn;
ac o wybod yn gyfiawn ei garu;
ac o garu, caru Duw.
Duw a phob daioni.

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Dreamworld
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Postby Dreamworld » 07 Feb 2004, 18:46

All good words. The author expands on this in "Different Drummers" at http://keirsey.com/Drummers.html.
:D

Grey Eagle,
Please could you tell me whicvh tribe you are from and how you are connected to the Native Americans (full blood, half blood etc). I hope you are not offended its just that many native people have expressed concern over an increasing number of 'nuagers' or 'wannabees' posing as natives on internet boards and spreading misinformation, so you will I hope understand this cautioninary measure. The fact that you continue to cut and paste references and present them as your own words is dishonest and arouses obvious suspicions. I certainly don't want to make you like me, however this is a concern that native people themselves are currently expressing.

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EarthWard
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Postby EarthWard » 07 Feb 2004, 18:53

Well Grey, I am glad to see you did not tuck and run when the kitchen got hot. I saw your avatar was gone and thought that you had left. It shows a lot of character that you stayed.
I understand the tradition of story telling. For that story gets told the same way from generation to generation. And though this is a shaman thread, most people here were or are trained in the Bardic way which teaches us to dive into our own souls and pull out the words that express ourselves the best. If we just relied on what other people said then there would be no use for us. I do hope that you can respect that as we do try to respect you.
Peace be with us all.
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Postby Niht-Wyrd » 08 Feb 2004, 17:58

"You get up in front of the people and tell them what they are, right to their face. They may not like that, but that’s what you stand for."

-Chief Peter John (1900 - 2003), traditional chief of the Athabascan peoples, one who knew-

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In peace,

Craig.


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