Wild boars slaughter in Poland

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Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Narmo » 12 Jan 2019, 13:31

https://www.theguardian.com/environment ... 72ssT4INGs
Pray for our wild boars, please. They really need it.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by winterfire » 12 Jan 2019, 14:43

Oh that is bad. :-(

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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Runefang » 12 Jan 2019, 16:35

Reminds me of the British government trying to gas all the badgers, they were blamed for tuberculosis in cattle. :-(
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Corbiniane » 12 Jan 2019, 16:47

Oh did you have that many badgers left? I wouldn't know how our 2.3 badgers (I guess?) would ever come near cattle never mind close enough to infect them.

Germany is still hesitant about wholesale slaughtering, they have fiddled a bit with lengthening hunting season. We are overrun by boar though, they already don't know how to manage them anymore.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Waldfrau » 12 Jan 2019, 18:25

I hope that with the return of the wolves there might be a better balance here.

I've seen reports of people feeding wild boars in tourist regions like Usedom.

I think lots of people just have to learn how to live and deal with wild animals again. It's the same discussion about the wolves. Some people think they own the land and animals have no right to live there if they are inconvenient for humans. That kind of thinking is so egoistic and short sighted.

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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Corbiniane » 12 Jan 2019, 18:44

Waldfrau most of what we call forest here is just too small to support a pair of wolves much less a pack. I know around here they shoot 50 boar at a time without naking a dent and no amount of wolves could do as much. It seems boar have lost their twice yearly mating seasons and now can breed all year round. (I'm not talking about the bigger national park forests like Bayerischer Wald). It's mostly roads and motorways that do the culling.

Edit: I was also wrong about the badgers, populations have gone up quite a lot again but we shouldn't have any around here because for obvious reasons they dislike sandy soils.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Corbiniane » 12 Jan 2019, 19:03

(Sorry for going off topic; I think a great many environmemtal problems would resolve themselves if we could just leave things alone and stop dabbling in playing God. Of course, having to feed and house almost 8 billion people (and 80 million alone in tiny Germany) it's somewhat impossible to return all of us to the "old ways of living".)
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Wanderer » 12 Jan 2019, 22:41

Of course, having to feed and house almost 8 billion people (and 80 million alone in tiny Germany) it's somewhat impossible to return all of us to the "old ways of living".)
Concerning food, we could start by stopping to waste so much. Saw a documentary about it today, and it was quite shocking how much perfectly fine food ends up in landfill, just for economic reasons or because it does not meet cosmetic standards.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Narmo » 13 Jan 2019, 08:37

We can also eat less meat and this also helps very much for many causes.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Corbiniane » 13 Jan 2019, 10:25

I just meant that with our country being that densely populated not everyone can have a garden that sustains a family and a farmer can't till his fields with ox and rake. There just aren't that many spaces that you can leave to their own devices and let return to self-managed wilderness. It's not only boar that suffer because of pig for pork.
Like, the Rhine valley used to be mosquito infested, so badly that people donned beekeepers hats for gardening. They started several programs - spraying insecticides and later targeting mosquito larvae specifically. Now amphibian populations are greatly greatly reduced because most larvae hatch in rainwater bins not the old Rhine arms. Humans try to find one problem and create more where nature in most cases may swing widely for a time but then find balance again.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Waldfrau » 13 Jan 2019, 10:42

Corbiniane wrote:
12 Jan 2019, 18:44
Waldfrau most of what we call forest here is just too small to support a pair of wolves much less a pack. I know around here they shoot 50 boar at a time without naking a dent and no amount of wolves could do as much. It seems boar have lost their twice yearly mating seasons and now can breed all year round. (I'm not talking about the bigger national park forests like Bayerischer Wald). It's mostly roads and motorways that do the culling.

Edit: I was also wrong about the badgers, populations have gone up quite a lot again but we shouldn't have any around here because for obvious reasons they dislike sandy soils.
I know the wolves are not the only factor. In cities there's more the problem that some animals eat garbage because the garbage isn't managed well or people just throw it somewhere. (We have quite a rat population in some city quarters f.ex.)

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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Narmo » 13 Jan 2019, 10:54

It simply don't change fact that we all eat to much meat, throw too much food away, don't have enough well managed trash bin system etc. In Poland hunters left food for wild boars in winter (no matter if winter is harsh or warm) so there is no natural selection and later they tell that we have so much boars that they must kill them, they also often left this food near the hunting platforms. Farmers on the other hand plant lots and lots of corn (one of favourite boars food) very near the forests and don't to fence it in well enough or worse at all. So as we can clearly see even without wolves there are things which can be very easily done to change the situation.
Please, let's focus on these things and other which we can do - and do as much as we can from these things. I'm 100% sure that if we just do it instead of talking again about why we can't do something suddenly situation would drastically changed for better. I will put my head on stakes for it.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Corbiniane » 13 Jan 2019, 12:30

@Narmo - wasn't talking about what we can't do as such I was talking about the consequences of our meddling. What you describe about your boar are examples of meddling and what it leads to: more meddling. That was all.

@Waldfrau - we have rats in our garden, they live under the ivy :( so we have to refrain from putting any (former) edibles onto the compost heap. We don't have any raccoons here but foxes venture as far as our street. .. or so I've been told. Never seen any. Lots were killed over the last years because of that disease (Fuchsräude?).
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Narmo » 13 Jan 2019, 12:47

Medling is one thing and indeed we should stop doing that, but throwing food, eating meat, bad managed bins etc are another. We are not hunters and farmers so we don't have straight way to change what they do (except law and petions and choosing right people in government) but we can choose what we eat, what we throw away and how we manage our bins and this is what I'm talking about. We should focus on what we can do instead of mainly talking about areas we don't have direct influence on - or if we talk about them we should also wrote about how we can influence them indirectly. This is famous constructive criticism and I recommend it wholeheartedly - very big improvement in discussion, especialy when we talk about action.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Corbiniane » 13 Jan 2019, 14:24

At this point, eating or stopping to eat meat will not make a difference to these boar about to be killed. The question at this specific moment is, do we need to step in, kill them in order to prevent the spreading of the disease (to farm pigs yes but also to wild boar in the west). ....or let the disease run its course. We have got huge populations of boar and we do have too many pigs for pork and we do have to make these very difficult decisions. Because we did not make different decisions in the past. We can't change the fact that we didn't and that's not "negative thinking".
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Narmo » 13 Jan 2019, 15:09

Killing wild boars if anything will only speed up spreading the disease. I read many of informations from scientists and specialists about this issue and there is one conclusion - wild boars don't go into the pigpens, people do: hunters, farmers and others. Only thing which can stop this thing is proper hygiene. Nothing else. So this slaughter is stupid, immoral and unnecessary. We need to protest, we need to block hunts, we need to educate other and we need to stop eating pork and other meat. In XXI century eating meat (excluding people who have serious issues with nutrition and some diseases) is no more than relict from the past; thing, which should no longer be done. We can resign from eating it any time and we should. This is best thing we can do for all wild animals everywhere in the world right now.
Geez I have slowly an impression that I must wrote the same things again and again in a neverending circle and this is really annoying - but I thought that at least here I will not need to wrote that killing animals which don't have any contact with pigs don't resolve anything O.O
I just think about how we use twice as place, energy, water etc to grow food for animals which we eat and how this place should be instead preserved for wilderness and we could use plants we gave these animals for ourselves and I got really angry. This is really stupid. And here we wonder how to resolve this thing while answer is so obvious and lays under our noses all the time. Because if we stop eating meat there be no pig farms, no cow farms, no chicken farms etc, no insane amount of waste, death and destroyed nature. It is really simple as that.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Waldfrau » 13 Jan 2019, 16:03

I agree with you, Narmo. I'm often much too tired to go to demonstrations and such after work or at the weekend, but I'm cooking and eating anyway, so eating a plant and mushroom based diat is a really easy way of minimizing harm to the planet.

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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by winterfire » 13 Jan 2019, 16:19

I am not sure everybody just stopping eating meat would neccessarily be the salvation of the planet or the wildlife. It's not that simple. As far as the origanal issue in this thread is concerned, there have been some good common-sense suggestions. Getting authorities to listen to them is another matter.

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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Narmo » 13 Jan 2019, 16:21

Heh I'm also too tired - yesterday it was a blockade of hunt, should go but didn't. Fortunately not eating meat don't require going anywhere :P
Well eating only plants isn't all of the soulution - we also need to decrease consumption, food waste, stop using coal etc but this indeed is a very big part of it. Especially if this is about wild boars issue.
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Re: Wild boars slaughter in Poland

Post by Wanderer » 13 Jan 2019, 17:21

In XXI century eating meat (excluding people who have serious issues with nutrition and some diseases) is no more than relict from the past; thing, which should no longer be done. We can resign from eating it any time and we should. This is best thing we can do for all wild animals everywhere in the world right now.
I’d say the best here would be to go back to what our ancestors did: have a mostly plant-based diet and then have meat a few times on special occasions.

I believe that approach has some advantages over trying to convince everybody to stop eating meat:

- it is far easier to keep to a diet if you are allowed to break the rules occasionally... Think of allowing yourself a cookie every sunday while you are trying to avoid sugars. The almost-veggie alternative could be agreeing to eat meat only once a week or once a month. Bet it is easier to convince a majority of that than of going full-on veggie. But if everybody would do this, the effects could be much stronger than a small percentage of ‘real’ vegetarians

- it would make us appreciate meat more for the big offer that it is, rather than seeing it as just a slab of ‘red stuff’ as too many people do now. And keeping it for special occasions only, would only serve to make these special occasions more special

- for most people with nutritional issues, eating meat occasionally would be sufficient to solve this. I doubt there’s many people around who cam claim they NEED meat for every meal.
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