Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

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Art
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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Art » 22 Jun 2010, 22:37

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby DJ Droood » 22 Jun 2010, 22:56

Sorry, I was distracting from the topic.
Who is to blame, then?
You and me...mostly you...but not BP!

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 23 Jun 2010, 01:49

FINALLY A WAY WE CAN ALL APOLOGIZE TO BP!

http://apologizetobp.com/

They have twitter and facebook as well.


EPIC!! :D

Perhaps we can get an OBOD official apology??

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 23 Jun 2010, 01:59

Sorry, I was distracting from the topic.
Who is to blame, then?

Left wing Environmentalists.

http://www.huffingtonpost.com/2010/06/0 ... 98977.html
With [environmentalists'] nonsensical efforts to lock up safer drilling areas, all you're doing is outsourcing energy development, which makes us more controlled by foreign countries, less safe, and less prosperous on a dirtier planet. Your hypocrisy is showing. You're not preventing environmental hazards; you're outsourcing them and making drilling more dangerous.
Extreme deep water drilling is not the preferred choice to meet our country's energy needs, but your protests and lawsuits and lies about onshore and shallow water drilling have locked up safer areas. It's catching up with you. The tragic, unprecedented deep water Gulf oil spill proves it.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby DJ Droood » 23 Jun 2010, 02:38

FINALLY A WAY WE CAN ALL APOLOGIZE TO BP!

http://apologizetobp.com/

They have twitter and facebook as well.


EPIC!! :D

Perhaps we can get an OBOD official apology??
That is brilliant...how about a special eisteddfod category?

I may submit a vituperative dance piece.

here is my favourite this far:
I’m sorry the government is making you try to stop the leak. Your job is to drill wells, not plug them up.
On behalf of all my fellow dinosaurs, I want to apologize to BP for dying in a place which would later be so deep underwater that you couldn’t afford to extract my oily remains without cutting corners.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby DJ Droood » 23 Jun 2010, 13:29

The Louisiana judge who struck down the Obama administration's six-month ban on deepwater oil drilling in the Gulf of Mexico has reported extensive investments in the oil and gas industry, according to financial disclosure reports. He's also a new member of a secret national security court.
http://www.canadianbusiness.com/markets ... =D9GGVHN00

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Dendrias » 24 Jun 2010, 20:31

Sorry, I was distracting from the topic.
Who is to blame, then?
You and me...mostly you...but not BP!
Left wing Environmentalists.
American conservatives
western society
Now, that's puzzling. I would be to blame for the W.E.D.E.? And not BP? Or either left wingist or conservatives?
Taking the apologies further might be a better option than searching for the one to blame.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby DJ Droood » 24 Jun 2010, 21:28

Taking the apologies further might be a better option than searching for the one to blame.
hmmmm...we'll we are all obviously very sorry to BP....I think the Bush Administration needs as big hug too..they are always the scapegoat....but other than simply apologizing, how can we do more? Flowers? A card?

although this is probably the best solution:
western society
If we all share the blame equally, then there really isn't much more to talk about.

Admin: I request this thread be locked immediately, and then deleted, and then have the board's junk bin purged, as all this finger-pointing is not positive and constructive, and makes a few druids look petty. Or, simply delete all the posts critical of BP and leave all the one's from the apologists...that would be the "feel good" thing to do.

:shake:

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Dendrias » 24 Jun 2010, 21:59

You're so sarcastic, I have to go to bed! :noevil:
But I'll let a candle burn for You, BP, Bush and the Four Sisters. And Davin Raincloud, of course. :candle:

:tiphat:

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby DJ Droood » 24 Jun 2010, 22:06

But I'll let a candle burn for You, BP, Bush and the Four Sisters. And Davin Raincloud, of course. :candle:
Don't waste the wax on Davin Raincloud..he is beyond hope...he has been brainwashed by Obama.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 24 Jun 2010, 22:56

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=6K_KGTmdsmU

These right wingers have created the lax safety and regulatory environment that helped cause the disaster..... and they think BP are the victims.

I understand that a lot of people are scared and afraid because of 9/11. They know that! They fanned the fear, they profited from it.

But they stand against everything that Druids stand for in regards to environment.

So once they use their smoke and mirrors to escape responsibility, they will simply create the same 'drill baby drill' conditions again in the future.

There is a lot of evidence out there that Right Wing politicians who are in the pockets of oil companies conspire to stop green alternatives. Check out http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Who_Killed ... ric_Car%3F for example.

It's great that you say "the people" are responsible, but what if the people aren't allowed to choose alternatives?

Why can't we put a spot light on these politicians that create the conditions that lead to these disasters?

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Dendrias » 25 Jun 2010, 08:10

I'm awake. Still a bit sleepy and in a hurry, but awake.

When I read this statement of the American Republican that he is ashame of the "$20-billion shakedown", I thought that this is pretty much an American thing - I don't know why, but blaming a government for managing things ... well, loads of Europeans think different about governmental work. I learned about this difference in thinking from some of these threads here, and I also learned that the European practice of fencing in the freedom of speech in favour of preventing harassment is seen as dictatorship to some Americans - seeing that, the fuss caused by some politicians "openly apologising" puzzles me.
But, let me say that before someone heads off or says I'm defending and not seeing the fault in BP and want every American living at the coastline be paying and cleaning up this mess by himself - no, I don't.
It puzzles me to see, that "a judge", meaning "just any judge" can stop a ban, but I don't know whether this judge and his court had the right to interfere with political affairs. In Germany, there's one single court to have the right to interfere with laws. And the ban would necessarily have been a law.

Puzzling enough, the German conservative, who never had an impulse against environmental thinking, never before where its advocates. In their latest agenda, environment plays a role, just how it does in the churches' agendas. Puzzling enough, it's of course the conservatives with their liberal sidekicks to prolong the use of nuclear power, while it has been the conservatives with the social-democrats and the social-democrats with their green-party-sidekicks, to fence in the use of nuclear power. (You see, coalitions are a feature of German politics.) You see: The lines are not very well defined, but you can tell the difference.

And still, these parties and sometimes coalitions are elected governments. Our conservative chancellor, now, wants the eco-friendly car, wants, now, research in these fields. Whether it's lip service - let's see.
But how could we possibly say, that we didn't want what certain parties are doing? I think, again, that this is a very American thing.

BTW: It's never a wasting of wax if the outcome is light, warmth and peace, is it?

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Nightfalls » 25 Jun 2010, 08:42

Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole
I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance, I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears, Looms but the Horror of the shade
And yet the menace of the years Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll
I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Art » 25 Jun 2010, 09:22

I’ve been watching this thread and it seems at times to have the appearance of a mob which would gladly burn anybody at the stake just for the satisfaction of seeing somebody burned. The fact is that we don’t yet know exactly what happened, how it happened, or who was immanently responsible for the accident. We do know that BP was and is the responsible party and is fully responsible for managing the spill and paying the freight for the damage caused. Beyond that we’re bombarded by media speculation fueled by paid consultant “experts” challenged to produce information that will result in the most sellable rating-grabber stories. If you take anything, let alone everything, put out by any one of the American media companies as the absolute truth you’re more gullible than you probably need to be. Every single one of the news media outlets in the US spins stories to the tune of the highest bidding sponsor in concert withe the highest potential ratings.

It may well be that in the final analysis some type of criminal negligence will be discovered and prosecuted but to date there hasn’t (to my knowledge) been any nor has there been any indictments brought against any individual or company.

Rather than go on idle speculation, read Judge Feldman’s decision: http://www.laed.uscourts.gov/GENERAL/No ... _doc67.pdf
Certainly Judge Feldman’s decision may be overturned on appeal but thus far it stands as a rational decision based on the facts and applicable law as presented to him. He can’t just make it up as he goes.

Similarly neither the President nor any of the agencies involved can arbitrarily dictate something contrary to law and legal precedent. Mr. Obama is not King Obama but rather an elected official who must operate within the bounds of power afforded him by the Constitution and the Congress. He’s not omnipotent.
Now as far as folks taking money from oil companies is concerned, don’t just look at Republicans. The vast majority of Democratic congressmen from oil producing states have plenty of oil money in their war chest. Similarly, quite a few environmental action groups gladly take grants from oil companies.

The moral to all this is simply not to over react. As Druids the last thing we want is to be in a position to after the fact determine that the body on the pyre really didn’t need killing. I would suggest prudence, reason, a focus on the immediate concern of stopping the release and cleaning the environment and less concentration on which faggot to toss on the fire. The time for accountability, assessing blame, and lighting the fire will come. Listen to the news with a skeptical ear and compare stories from many different sources before drawing a conclusion of your own.
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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 25 Jun 2010, 09:44


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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 25 Jun 2010, 09:50

We do know that BP was and is the responsible party and is fully responsible for managing the spill and paying the freight for the damage caused.
I have been following the political arena for some time over there. Let us not forget the philosophies, the political ideologies, and the 'bought' politicians that contributed to this 'negligence'.

There is evidence coming fourth that certain safety measures could have prevented this disaster and stopped the leak sooner.

What I will be looking at closely is if anyone examines those things.

I suspect they will not. I suspect another 9/11 style report where people who were negligent are not examined in much detail and things swept under the rug.

****

Now if the President had received a blow job from an intern and lied about it..... well then I would expect a full, comprehensive and graphic investigation. Because after all the Republicans can't have president's who lie about things.... because he's the man with the finger on the button. You can't have a liar as the president, he might go to war or something. **wait sorry... having a 90s flashback!***

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Merlyn » 25 Jun 2010, 13:52

Such language, shows the anger.
Venting in a way can clear heads, so long as heads are still on the shoulders...

Deep water drilling, and making a claim "we are never too deep to do it" is in itself asking for trouble...

IMO as soon as we go a mile deep in water to get oil, the truth isn't far behind..


"Not in my shrimp bed" is the deal today, and really we bear the blame for it totally as we type on a product of the very sin we seem to abhor.
Perhaps we need to reflect on the disposable product mind set we all have, the way technology drives this, and how things built to last and the craftsmen needed to do so have all but become a lost art.
Travel has become taken for granted, and as we all know, wherever you go, there you are. So much deep culture, value and skill is lost to the plastic, disposable way we have driven our lives, and now we mob with noose in hand to kill those who have accommodated, profited and ignored the need for what we all care about, because frankly we have lost our values, allowed it to become normal and left the trash in the landfill, away and out of our own sight, not in our back yard, and as I mention, "we had it coming".

To be sure, BP has gone over it's head, too deep and disregarded humans as expendable like so many other things we do.
And to be sure, other countries will reap oil and other energy to manufacture, and we buy it, cheap, think nothing of it too often, never see the slave labor, the sweat shops or the pollution we ourselves will not allow on our lands, just so things can be made like crap, fail quickly, cannot be repaired, do not support our own culture and such in a rather selfish way.

Transportation, products, foods, just about everything we know now is directly or indirectly reliant on fossil fuels now.
If at all we are to stop the junkie oil problem we see, the going for the toes; after the arm veins collapse, kind of mistake that will kill off the very first level of our food chain, we must really look at what we all have become, what we rely on, why and how to change it.

BP is just the "pusher". We are the junkies.

If we want to shed the problem, we will indeed have a very serious detox, in just about every aspect of our lives.
And like it or not, it has to happen. It will happen weather we like it or not, as peak oil has already passed.

There will be no more oil all too soon. Our way is about to change. And our time is better spent thinking on this now, before the problem makes us unable to change.


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ac yn nawdd, nerth;
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ac yn neall, gwybod;
ac o wybod, gwybod yn gyfiawn;
ac o wybod yn gyfiawn ei garu;
ac o garu, caru Duw.
Duw a phob daioni.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Nightfalls » 25 Jun 2010, 18:30

Just talked to my dad again, he said the beaches home are completely ruined. They have hundreds of people and bulldozers trying to get the crap up, but it is not working. He also said the first dead dolphin has washed ashore :gloomy: We are lucky it has not hit the Keys yet, or the living reef here. Imagine the kind of devastation that would happen if that living reef was hit, and died. It is home to hundreds of thousands of fish, coral, anemone etc., and is protected by only a thin membrane.
Out of the night that covers me, Black as the pit from pole to pole
I thank whatever gods may be For my unconquerable soul.

In the fell clutch of circumstance, I have not winced nor cried aloud.
Under the bludgeonings of chance My head is bloody, but unbowed.

Beyond this place of wrath and tears, Looms but the Horror of the shade
And yet the menace of the years Finds and shall find me unafraid.

It matters not how strait the gate, How charged with punishments the scroll
I am the master of my fate: I am the captain of my soul.

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Davin Raincloud » 01 Jul 2010, 07:31

It's important to realise that BP is not there to save the world, which is why they purged those kinds of people from their staff prior to the Crisis.

http://media.smh.com.au/national/enviro ... 20264.html

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Re: Worst Environmental Disaster ever - Who is to Blame

Postby Aylyn » 07 Jul 2010, 15:43

If we all share the blame equally, then there really isn't much more to talk about.
Funny, my attitude would just be the opposite: If we are all to blame, then we should all look at our way of life to see why and where we are to blame, and what we can do to change this. THat is IMO the big chance we have, a wake-up call. We cannot stick our head in the sand anymore and decide that our way of life is almost okay since no big disaster has happened so far. I am with Merlyn on that: We need to check our way of life for values.

That is why I find this blame discussion counter-productive: Accusing each other will only result in further disasters, as the accused tend to build a defence position that states they have "done nothing wrong" and will go on with what they are doing. We all know what happens when you ask 2 fighting 5-year olds who started the fight - it is no different in Big Business. Don't get me wrong: I want to know why it happened, and if anything was against laws and regulations, the guilty party should be punished. But as Art says: We still don't know what really happened, and based on past records, we never will, as it will never be fully published.

So instead of baying for blood, or reacting cynically, why don't we do something productive, and actually try to change the world? Now is a good time, cause people listen.
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