Should druids travel by plane?

This subforum is for discussions of any issues and concerns that impact the environment, such as biodiversity, global climate change, genetically engineered plants and animals, human population, animal and nature conservation, natural disasters, etc.
Post Reply
User avatar
Dru*
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 37
Joined: 27 Jan 2019, 18:11
Gender: Not Specified
Contact:

Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Dru* » 26 Apr 2019, 20:53

Badgerheart wrote:
25 Apr 2019, 13:39
If we should try and eliminate certain harmful practices, I think "should Druids travel by plane?" is a more relevant question to ask.
Badgerheart does ask a very important question and one that certainly deserves its own thread. With the summer gathering coming up, druids will be getting on planes from all around the world to come to Glastonbury (I've heard significant grumblings on that subject recently).

And it's hard to argue against the premise that, as earth-loving souls, we should seek to limit the damage we do to the beautiful world that nurtures us. And yet my personal decision to fly or not doesn't stop the plane taking off, burning fuel and dumping carbon dioxide into the atmosphere. Even if I managed to reduce my personal carbon emissions to zero over my lifetime, I'd only shave milliseconds off the coming eco-apocalypse.

So this can't be all up to me or you. So what to do instead? Glue myself to a DLR train or sit in a pink boat in Oxford Circus? Shout at the government to change? Support companies who take try to improve their environmental record? Blow up power stations? Or retreat from civilisation to high ground where the sea level rises won't reach me, and stockpile canned goods?

Asking for a friend...
"There are no unsacred places;
there are only sacred places
and desecrated places."
~ Wendell Berry

User avatar
Badgerheart
OBOD Bard
Posts: 36
Joined: 21 Apr 2019, 23:11
Gender: Male
Location: Oslo, Norway
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Badgerheart » 26 Apr 2019, 23:40

Thank you for picking up my comment! I think you are asking good questions. I have been thinking about those for a number of years without really finding a good answer. I think it's especially hard when it comes to traveling - I love to travel, and I'm sure going to other countries has been important for my awareness of the world and its environment. Still, we know that the current volume of mass travel is not sustainable.

My starting point is that consumers are not as powerful as we are told. We cannot save the world by buying the right products. In order to change society with intention, collective, political action is needed.

That being said, this is not an excuse for not taking responsibility for our personal actions. In our current age of mass consumption, this also matters. Especially when there are seven billion of us (and that number will probably peak at 10-11 billion in my lifetime).

It's easy to feel overwhelmed by all of this, and even more easy to think that is does not matter anyway, so why bother?

I think one of a good perspective on this comes from the witch and activist Starhawk, who wrote: “We can make personal choices that reduce the greenhouse gases we each produce. It’s important that we do this not out of a sense of guilty or resentful obligation, but as an affirmative choice to more deeply integrate our values and our everyday actions.”

I have started to think about it like that. I wish to live in a world where people live within the limits of the ecosystem, therefore I will myself try to modify my behaviour in that respect. I will probably not be all successful - many factors are beyond my control as an individual. But some are not. And by starting with those, I am becoming more like the person I want to be.

(I still travel by plane sometimes. But I am trying to limit it, both personal and work-related. And I am learning something about the pleasures of slow travel.)

User avatar
Corbiniane
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 1772
Joined: 22 Oct 2017, 14:57
Gender: Female
Location: Südhessen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Corbiniane » 27 Apr 2019, 09:44

I've found that I don't have a deep desire to fly to Hawaii or Bali or India, but visiting the British Isles is very much on my bucket list. Going on holiday generally is proving too expensive for our family of four, so my carbon footprint in that regard is excellent.... but not making up for my mom's excessive travelling, not to mention what the rest of the world is doing. Having a private plane to fly to meetings? Flying to New York for a weekend of shopping? ? In today's climate (pun very much intended)!!?? Should be banned outlawed fined, together with gravelling your front lawn.
Just read in the paper that the number of passenger flights has gone up another...what was it?... three or four percent. Frankfurt Airport's new runway will have planes taking off all over my neighbourhood. Meanwhile, the last of our bits of wood will be razed to make way for another railway track, so the city can be connected to the fast ICE train system too. Yay.
Communities all over the landscape have been squabbling and trying to pass those buckets (who gets the tracks? Who gets the planes?) for years and years now.
And here I am, getting flak from all sides because I let my 9 year old daughter ride the bike to school, alone.
I'm going back to bed now.
***always edited for autocorrects and poorly chosen words***

"I have no special talents. I'm just passionately curious" ~ Albert Einstein

"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business." ~ Tom Robbins

ImageImage
Image 2018 BS 2018 LI 2018 SB

User avatar
Runefang
OBOD Bard
Posts: 715
Joined: 22 Sep 2017, 14:18
Gender: Male
Location: Durham, UK
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Runefang » 27 Apr 2019, 11:14

At last a valid argument for me to justify staying at home. :)

To fly or not to fly, depends upon how much you do it I suppose. Some countries are so large that they have to go by air if it’s any distance, the time taken otherwise would be cost prohibitive in the business world, but the voluntary holiday flights etc. Well do you really need to go abroad five times a year just because you can?(UK perspective here where the world is divided into the British and the foreigners.)
Image
Image
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=48675#p496142

"Just because I asked doesn’t mean that I wanted to know.”

User avatar
Corbiniane
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 1772
Joined: 22 Oct 2017, 14:57
Gender: Female
Location: Südhessen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Corbiniane » 27 Apr 2019, 11:46

Well do you really need to go abroad five times a year just because you can?(UK perspective here where the world is divided into the British and the foreigners.)
You British are never far from the sea (which might or will turn into a disadvantage of course) and the sea is more or less why I travel. Unfortunately it's 600 km to the North or Baltic Sea and 1000 km to the Mediterranean or Atlantic from here. So every few (four? five?) Years we pack up the caravan .....
***always edited for autocorrects and poorly chosen words***

"I have no special talents. I'm just passionately curious" ~ Albert Einstein

"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business." ~ Tom Robbins

ImageImage
Image 2018 BS 2018 LI 2018 SB

Elfie
OBOD Bard
Posts: 6
Joined: 27 Apr 2019, 15:42
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Elfie » 27 Apr 2019, 16:37

Hi, my personal opinion is flying is a choice not a necessity whether it be for work or holiday. There is surely enough things to do and see for holidays in a reasonable area, if we are passionate enough about our planet we could work closer to home or use alternate transport and most importantly adapt the way we live to accommodate this. I know it sounds simple but is that not what we should be aiming for, a simpler way of living, back to basics.

User avatar
Heddwen
OBOD Druid
Posts: 4435
Joined: 26 Sep 2007, 16:06
Gender: Female
Location: West Wales
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Heddwen » 27 Apr 2019, 18:12

Elfie wrote:
27 Apr 2019, 16:37
Hi, my personal opinion is flying is a choice not a necessity whether it be for work or holiday. There is surely enough things to do and see for holidays in a reasonable area, if we are passionate enough about our planet we could work closer to home or use alternate transport and most importantly adapt the way we live to accommodate this. I know it sounds simple but is that not what we should be aiming for, a simpler way of living, back to basics.
Hello Elfie,

I noticed that you have no Bardic Grade underneath your name here and just wondered if you have registered? If not, then please take a look at this thread... viewtopic.php?f=345&t=47704 If you could let me know then that is grand. :)

Cheerio,

Heddwen.

Jen88
OBOD Bard
Posts: 70
Joined: 25 Jul 2018, 15:54
Gender: Female
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Jen88 » 16 Jul 2019, 11:16

I think the problem is that:
1. We are using a broken system to live by, in terms of how we value things, people,
who gets what, when and why.

I'm just one person, so I don't know how to make it better.

I accept that it can't be perfect, but it could be su much better!

2. There are way way too many people using that broken system and it's really
really hard/impossible to get out of it.

And it's not just a developed verses developing countries thing when it comes to the over population question.

Many factors, including religious and cultural reasons, push/encourage people to have many children.

Also lack of empowerment to women and girls, but also men in some cases.

I'm not saying at all that people shouldn't have children, it is something that after all, is wired in to most of us and after all if our parents didn't have children, we wouldn't be here today.

This isn't just about a few families who choose to have many children, it is a global issue, where people are not empowered, or do not have access to the right services to make informed choices about how many children they bring in to the world and when.

Again, not bashing anyone on here with multiple children, the issue is bigger than just the folks on this forum.

The same argument could be applied to me, as an assistance dog user.

But surely, I can use a long cane to get around, so I should do that instead of having a dog, because even though it's less efficient for me (in my opinion) it's much less carbon footprint than having a dog!

However I still have my trusty wonder hound.

I personally probably wouldn't have children, but I feel the current climate crisis has totally taken that choice away from me.

I am angry that I live in a broken and over used system, that I can't escape from.

I feel that no matter what I do, I'm still never going to get to where I want to be, because of the system.

And yes, I know some folks on here do live super amazing green lives, that's great. but again, we can't all do that due to disability, lack of funds, not having the skills etc.

As for doing something like protesting, even if I felt that it wouldn't get wrecked by a few people who would cause things to get way out of hand, I can't afford to lose my job, as being blind, it's hard to get employed, even in the UK in 2019.

So what to do???

Sorry this is a huge rant and way off the original thread subject, but this has been building up for a few days now and I just need to get it out.

I guess the Fire gwers have really done some work!!!

Peace and best wishes,
Jen.

User avatar
Runefang
OBOD Bard
Posts: 715
Joined: 22 Sep 2017, 14:18
Gender: Male
Location: Durham, UK
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Runefang » 16 Jul 2019, 17:38

I think that is a very balanced and well adjusted analysis Jen. It is not given to all to be able to live the perfect life, that is perfect from a low impact to the planet point of view, more power to those who can but not at the expense of a more righteous than thou attitude. After all, are we not Druids together. :)
Image
Image
viewtopic.php?f=29&t=48675#p496142

"Just because I asked doesn’t mean that I wanted to know.”

User avatar
Corbiniane
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 1772
Joined: 22 Oct 2017, 14:57
Gender: Female
Location: Südhessen, Germany
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by Corbiniane » 16 Jul 2019, 18:18

It's the hardest to fall short of one's own expectations. In the end we have to accept that we can only do as much as we can and only live within the boundaries of what is possible for us. "If only" and perfectionism in general can be very harmful.
No one would begrudge you your seeing eye dog.
The only way to reduce our carbon footprint to zero would be to die quietly and let ourselves be eaten by wild animals. In the meantime we can do as best as we can.
***always edited for autocorrects and poorly chosen words***

"I have no special talents. I'm just passionately curious" ~ Albert Einstein

"Disbelief in magic can force a poor soul into believing in government and business." ~ Tom Robbins

ImageImage
Image 2018 BS 2018 LI 2018 SB

User avatar
DaRC
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 5082
Joined: 06 Feb 2003, 17:13
Gender: Male
Location: Sussex
Contact:

Re: Should druids travel by plane?

Post by DaRC » 16 Jul 2019, 20:25

In another world, on a very different type of forum, the members used to mark & critique a rant :D

10/10 a well thought, un-capitalized, well reasoned and, dare I say it, on-topic rant :applause:
Most dear is fire to the sons of men,
most sweet the sight of the sun;
good is health if one can but keep it,
and to live a life without shame. (Havamal 68)
http://gewessiman.blogspot.co.uk Image

Post Reply

Return to “Environmental Issues”