The Atheist Druid

A forum for the discussion of heuristic questions relating to Druidry using verifiable methods. Fo-fúair!
Life is short, the art long, opportunity fleeting, experiment treacherous, judgment difficult. — Hippocrates

Sturgeon's Law: Ninety percent of everything is crap.

This is a public forum, viewable by guests as well as members, and is cataloged by most search engines.
Forum rules
If you find a topic of interest and want to continue the discussion then start a new topic under The Hearthfire with a similar name and add a link back to the topic you want to continue.
Locked
User avatar
DJ Droood
OBOD Druid
Posts: 5558
Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 18:52
Gender: Male
Location: North Eastern North America
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by DJ Droood » 22 Mar 2011, 13:57

dhonour wrote:
cursuswalker wrote:It is also worth realising that even active atheism does not really propose anything. Nothing is offered "in place" of god, only the means to determine what is and what is not.
Is there room for another category that is atheist but does propose *something* however vague? I am an active a-theist in that I have come to a point where I don't believe in a theistic God(s) / Goddess(es): but I do believe in an emergent pantheistic 'je ne sais quoi'.
Good observation...I was thinking the same thing, but sort of in reverse....what about the vocal theist who doesn't *really* believe in what they are proclaiming, but are doing it for social/cultural/economic reasons.....Men's Christian Breakfasts are a good place to network, and pagan campfires are fun, once you suffer through the dancing around with printed scripts part.
Image
2010 LI
2011 LI
2013 BS
Image
12/10-Ancestors
"If organized religion is the opium of the masses, then disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe."
Kerry Thornley

User avatar
Explorer
OBOD Druid
Posts: 2511
Joined: 10 Jul 2004, 22:54
Gender: Male
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by Explorer » 22 Mar 2011, 19:15

DJ Droood wrote: Good observation...I was thinking the same thing, but sort of in reverse....what about the vocal theist who doesn't *really* believe in what they are proclaiming, but are doing it for social/cultural/economic reasons.....Men's Christian Breakfasts are a good place to network, and pagan campfires are fun, once you suffer through the dancing around with printed scripts part.
Mmm, where would that put me?
I don't believe in supernatural gods, but I don't always mind to throw some forces of nature on a heap (like spring, womanhood), stick in a carrot as a nose, light some incense and call it a goddess. That sounds funny ofcourse, but it can even go so far that such an image actually stirs quite some emotions, especially when it is a real person who becomes the personification of this artificially created goddess archetype in a real ritual.
So, I have the words, I have the rituals, I have the understanding of what it means, I have the emotions, but I don't believe in anything supernatural. What kind of atheist does that make me?
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Image

User avatar
DJ Droood
OBOD Druid
Posts: 5558
Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 18:52
Gender: Male
Location: North Eastern North America
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by DJ Droood » 22 Mar 2011, 19:28

Nico wrote:What kind of atheist does that make me?
not "radical" or "rabid" enough....you need to spend more time converting children.
Image
2010 LI
2011 LI
2013 BS
Image
12/10-Ancestors
"If organized religion is the opium of the masses, then disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe."
Kerry Thornley

User avatar
Mountainheart
OBOD Bard
Posts: 385
Joined: 24 Nov 2008, 22:26
Gender: Male
Location: Yorkshire
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by Mountainheart » 22 Mar 2011, 20:00

Nico wrote:So, I have the words, I have the rituals, I have the understanding of what it means, I have the emotions, but I don't believe in anything supernatural. What kind of atheist does that make me?
I think that maybe makes you someone who realises that nature itself has it's own emergent properties which are what people have tried to use the language of 'God' and 'Goddess' to describe (and in the main failed). There is nothing supernatural IMO but maybe there is a lot more to the natural than we have yet discovered.

Thx
David

User avatar
Explorer
OBOD Druid
Posts: 2511
Joined: 10 Jul 2004, 22:54
Gender: Male
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by Explorer » 22 Mar 2011, 20:21

dhonour wrote: what people have tried to use the language of 'God' and 'Goddess' to describe.
:tiphat:
Do you also sometimes have that feeling that some guy came up with a great idea that he tried to find the right words for.. like "jee, gosh!"... and then the rest of folks then misunderstood and wrote a book? :grin:
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Image

User avatar
Jake
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 300
Joined: 22 Jul 2009, 02:08
Gender: Male
Location: TX
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by Jake » 22 Mar 2011, 20:34

dhonour wrote: ...nature itself has it's own emergent properties which are what people have tried to use the language of 'God' and 'Goddess' to describe (and in the main failed)...
Yes!
Image

User avatar
treegod
OBOD Druid
Posts: 2141
Joined: 26 Apr 2007, 16:28
Gender: Male
Location: Catalonia, Spain
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by treegod » 22 Mar 2011, 22:07

cursuswalker wrote:It is also worth realising that even active atheism does not really propose anything. Nothing is offered "in place" of god, only the means to determine what is and what is not.
Atheism neither proposes nor offers anything?

I'm just wasting my time then... :wink:

User avatar
cursuswalker
OBOD Bard
Posts: 1076
Joined: 26 May 2004, 20:29
Gender: Male
Location: Airstrip One.
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by cursuswalker » 23 Mar 2011, 01:26

Nico wrote:
DJ Droood wrote: Good observation...I was thinking the same thing, but sort of in reverse....what about the vocal theist who doesn't *really* believe in what they are proclaiming, but are doing it for social/cultural/economic reasons.....Men's Christian Breakfasts are a good place to network, and pagan campfires are fun, once you suffer through the dancing around with printed scripts part.
Mmm, where would that put me?
I don't believe in supernatural gods, but I don't always mind to throw some forces of nature on a heap (like spring, womanhood), stick in a carrot as a nose, light some incense and call it a goddess. That sounds funny ofcourse, but it can even go so far that such an image actually stirs quite some emotions, especially when it is a real person who becomes the personification of this artificially created goddess archetype in a real ritual.
So, I have the words, I have the rituals, I have the understanding of what it means, I have the emotions, but I don't believe in anything supernatural. What kind of atheist does that make me?
It makes you the kind who recognises what it is to be human. And who is not afraid to use that realisation in order to inspire yourself.
ImageTHE DRUIDIC ORDER OF NATURALISTS
http://www.caerabred.org/

User avatar
cursuswalker
OBOD Bard
Posts: 1076
Joined: 26 May 2004, 20:29
Gender: Male
Location: Airstrip One.
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by cursuswalker » 23 Mar 2011, 01:27

treegod wrote:
cursuswalker wrote:It is also worth realising that even active atheism does not really propose anything. Nothing is offered "in place" of god, only the means to determine what is and what is not.
Atheism neither proposes nor offers anything?

I'm just wasting my time then... :wink:
Atheism doesn't, by definition.

Naturalism and Humanism, on the other hand...
ImageTHE DRUIDIC ORDER OF NATURALISTS
http://www.caerabred.org/

User avatar
Explorer
OBOD Druid
Posts: 2511
Joined: 10 Jul 2004, 22:54
Gender: Male
Location: The Netherlands
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by Explorer » 23 Mar 2011, 09:23

cursuswalker wrote: It makes you the kind who recognises what it is to be human. And who is not afraid to use that realisation in order to inspire yourself.
Thank you for those words.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

Image

User avatar
cursuswalker
OBOD Bard
Posts: 1076
Joined: 26 May 2004, 20:29
Gender: Male
Location: Airstrip One.
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by cursuswalker » 23 Mar 2011, 11:53

Nico wrote:
cursuswalker wrote: It makes you the kind who recognises what it is to be human. And who is not afraid to use that realisation in order to inspire yourself.
Thank you for those words.
:)
ImageTHE DRUIDIC ORDER OF NATURALISTS
http://www.caerabred.org/

User avatar
treegod
OBOD Druid
Posts: 2141
Joined: 26 Apr 2007, 16:28
Gender: Male
Location: Catalonia, Spain
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by treegod » 23 Mar 2011, 16:01

cursuswalker wrote:
treegod wrote:
Atheism neither proposes nor offers anything?

I'm just wasting my time then... :wink:
Atheism doesn't, by definition.

Naturalism and Humanism, on the other hand...
Quite! I feel more defined by what I am for than what I am not for. I alwasy think my "Nos" are always used as tools to attain my "Yes". NO gods to connect with, then what to connect with? ME (as in the poem at the beginning!)

You mention naturalism and humanism, I'll also add Druidry as this is a thread on "The Atheist Druid" on a Druid board :)

Another thought, atheism doesn't propose anything but atheists do, being animals of intentions, desires and drives.

User avatar
treegod
OBOD Druid
Posts: 2141
Joined: 26 Apr 2007, 16:28
Gender: Male
Location: Catalonia, Spain
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by treegod » 23 Mar 2011, 16:06

cursuswalker wrote:It makes you the kind who recognises what it is to be human. And who is not afraid to use that realisation in order to inspire yourself.
Indeed, very good words! :D

whitehorse
Posts: 12
Joined: 18 Jul 2009, 21:11
Gender: Male
Location: Siluria, Cymru (turn left at the gnarled beech tree)
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by whitehorse » 25 Mar 2011, 12:06

Hello guys. I haven't been on the OBOD forums for ages. What took me so long? I promise I won't be a bother :wink:

Ho hum. I agree with the aforementioned...atheism is a purely negative stance, it is not per se a philosophy or way of life (unlike as you say, naturalism or humanism). My spirituality is non-theistic but that doesn't tell you what I believe in. As it happens, and like you all, I have plenty of spiritual beliefs, just they are beliefs that don't require (but in my case don't necessarily reject the possibility) of the existence of any personal, anthropomorphic and interventionist deities. Of course some people can't imagine you can have any meaning or spirituality without belief in a deity or deities. Thats wrong I know now, but I also thought the same once.

| would controversially say that a strong spirituality might need at least a 'secular sense of the divine', by which I mean having an ultimate concern or value (I can't see what is spiritual about a skeptical despair or nihilism therefore). For instance I think you can believe that in some sense Love is God, while not believing there is any God who loves. I think we can supremerely value beliefs, ideas, consciousness, and the bit of the universe which is sentient and have a metaphysics even if we know that 'mind' and 'soul' is entirely physically dependant on the body and naturalistic processes.

User avatar
cursuswalker
OBOD Bard
Posts: 1076
Joined: 26 May 2004, 20:29
Gender: Male
Location: Airstrip One.
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by cursuswalker » 25 Mar 2011, 12:56

whitehorse wrote:Of course some people can't imagine you can have any meaning or spirituality without belief in a deity or deities. Thats wrong I know now, but I also thought the same once.
I remember thinking in exactly the same way not so long ago. Seems beyond belief to me now.

Oh.....and defending the idea of intelligent design. I still deserve a smack for that one.
ImageTHE DRUIDIC ORDER OF NATURALISTS
http://www.caerabred.org/

User avatar
Bart
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 267
Joined: 06 Mar 2011, 19:01
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by Bart » 29 May 2011, 18:37

Why do we have bred into a species who benefits from strong religous belief. Which has been shown by using brain scans and bodily examination.
Why do we get an out of body experience when certain proteins are activated?
Why do you beleif GOD is talking to you when you either have a epiletic seizure or a psychotic episode.
Why do humans have a tendency to want to control their environment, either direct or magically?

Our body is wired to have positive effect from strong religious feelings and we are wired to feel connected to a deity.

Why do we continue to breed these traits? If there is nothing but Muons electrons or even smaller -ons, why would we be genitically prone to religion, be it in Deities, Atheism or Science.

Aitheism is a safe belief, the only thing which could happen is that you are surprised after you die.

User avatar
Huathe
Posts: 628
Joined: 13 Sep 2010, 03:42
Gender: Male
Location: Asheville NC USA
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by Huathe » 29 May 2011, 19:19

Of course some people can't imagine you can have any meaning or spirituality without belief in a deity or deities. Thats wrong I know now, but I also thought the same once.
_Whitehorse

Yes, I believed that until quite recently. I could not see how an atheist could be a druid. but an Atheist Druid can be spiritual by looking at the connectiveness of all life to the land and the connectiveness of all life to itself. The life force or spirit of life itself exists in all living things but in an atheists beliefs it would die as the body dies. No deity. No Afterlife. No re-incarnation. But he is yet spiritual.
James E Parton
Bardic Course Graduate - Ovate Student
New Order of Druids

" We all cry tears, we all bleed red "_Ronnie Dunn

http://www.nativetreesociety.org/
http://www.druidcircle.org/nod/index.ph ... Itemid=145
http://www.burningman.com/

whitehorse
Posts: 12
Joined: 18 Jul 2009, 21:11
Gender: Male
Location: Siluria, Cymru (turn left at the gnarled beech tree)
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by whitehorse » 05 Jun 2011, 00:33

Or one can be 'non-theist' and remain agnostic- (but inclined very skeptical) about the existence of ethereal anthropomorphic mind-entities with powers over nature (aka 'Gods). I wouldn't go quite so far as to describe myself as an atheist, but I don't do theism and have played with varieties of polytheism, deism, panentheism and pandeism.That leaves a number of possibly viable non-naturalistic options like animism (possibly including honouring of the 'spirits' of ancestors; also taoism and other spiritual monisms and pantheisms; evolutionary spirituality (c.f Cohen and Wilber) and also of course varieties of Buddhism. No one should tell you the options are limited to only classic monotheism and polytheism or atheism. Such a viewpoint lacks imagination. Personally I like a bit of spiritual 'pick and mix' but everything I think is heavily seasoned with naturalism and preference for using science to establish the truth.

The following questions still keep me wondering i.e I often doubt the intellectual sufficiency of a purely monist-materialist and reductionist explanation as presented on these pages : For example is the world just 'patterns of physical matter-energy or is consciousness more fundamental and not simply emergent? How do we account for the wide testimony of paranormal experience? And why are archetypes, myth and symbol so powerful in shaping human consciousnesss and culture? And is'nt 'intuition' also necessary as well as experiment and reason in establishing truth?

User avatar
Bart
OBOD Ovate
Posts: 267
Joined: 06 Mar 2011, 19:01
Gender: Male
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by Bart » 05 Jun 2011, 05:23

symbols and myhs are powerfull, because you make them so. They are part of your truths. A symbol only works if you recognise it, if not nothing.

The mind is a funny place to get lost.

User avatar
DJ Droood
OBOD Druid
Posts: 5558
Joined: 02 Feb 2003, 18:52
Gender: Male
Location: North Eastern North America
Contact:

Re: The Atheist Druid

Post by DJ Droood » 05 Jun 2011, 12:49

I would not, for the life of me, say something like "I hope the car doesn't break down on holidays", without knocking on wood three times (no more, no less.) OCD or God? Perhaps I should join the priesthood.
Image
2010 LI
2011 LI
2013 BS
Image
12/10-Ancestors
"If organized religion is the opium of the masses, then disorganized religion is the marijuana of the lunatic fringe."
Kerry Thornley

Locked

Return to “The Skeptical Druid”