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Re: Good books to read for Celtic history etc.

Posted: 15 Jan 2011, 17:12
by Ghostrider
:hug:

Exactamundo!

The thing with 'untrained' people is.. they mostly have an open mind. And don't come to the same conclusions as their predecessors just because "they said so!". That's not discovering, that's copying.
Now.. there is of course a fine line... Not all untrained experts are indeed experts. Unfortunately, there's also a lot of imagination and fantasy going round. Heck.. if you believe some scholars, Gerald Gardner is a storyteller extra-ordinair! There's still quite a few Wiccans around though :grin:

Like I said.. without thinking for yourself and experiencing and discovering... what's the use of being or 'following' a scholar? Or a fantast for that matter :shrug:

But don't take my word for it :-) After all.. I could be dreaming... :innocent:

Re: Good books to read for Celtic history etc.

Posted: 16 Jan 2011, 18:34
by Arth Frown
Ghostrider wrote:Don't let the product description put you off. That's just AMAZON's version. The author does not attribute the building of nucleair missiles to the Tudors in any way :whistle: (nor that other example :-) ).
Helruning, or Helrunar, also means HEALING Runes, and the use thereof. So there's more to it. ( Hel = Heil (as in well-being, not the right-wing crap) = Heal or Hail )

Also, the author does not just discuss Norse runes, but the origin of runes throughout the ages, starting even by Neanderthal man.
Part of the book is indeed concenring the use of Runes, but it's the history which is allready VERY interesting.

Anyways.. I'm now giving away things... if you're truly interested, just read it :)
Thanks, you cost me £12.99. :grin:

Waes hael

Re: Good books to read for Celtic history etc.

Posted: 16 Jan 2011, 18:46
by Arth Frown
There must be a distinction from historically accurate and personnel practise?

Re: Good books to read for Celtic history etc.

Posted: 16 Jan 2011, 19:39
by leaves
Arth Frown wrote:There must be a distinction from historically accurate and personnel practise?
Yes, this is what I've been trying to say.

Also, what rubs most recons the wrong way (and rubs me the wrong way) are claims that a practice is based on supposed history, when in reality it isn't. For example, take the four directions, which are used in OBOD and Wiccan ritual. There's nothing wrong with this practice, and if it works for you, go for it. But there is no evidence that the ancient Celts viewed/used the four directions the way that modern OBODies or Wiccans use them in ritual today. And that's fine, but when someone makes a claim that the four directions come from the ancient Celts and that's why it's used today, that's just false - there is no evidence for it. And it doesn't mean that it shouldn't be used, just that it's not based in history. For instance, we know that triples were part of the Celtic worldview, so modern recons often incorporation Land, Sea, and Sky into their rituals. Again, we don't know exactly what the ancient Celts did or if they specifically incorporated Land Sea and Sky into their rituals the same way that modern recons might, but we know it was part of the worldview. I don't think most recons claim they are doing what the ancestors did exactly, because we don't have any way of knowing the specifics, but they do look at everything we do know about those cultures and try to incorporate those aspects into their practice.

I don't have any problem with people using their own imagination and inspiration to create what works for them, but when they claim it's based on something ancient when there's no historical evidence for it, that bothers me, because it ignores what we do know about the past.

Re: Good books to read for Celtic history etc.

Posted: 17 Jan 2011, 17:19
by Ghostrider
leaves wrote: Also, what rubs most recons the wrong way (and rubs me the wrong way) are claims that a practice is based on supposed history, when in reality it isn't.
But.. :grin: isn't that exactly the basis for MOST, if not ALL, major religions, INCLUDING Pagan ones? :-)

Also, what "we do know" of history, is also subject to personal interpretation. As stated above in Sturgeon's Law: 90% of everything is crap. :grin:

Still, it can be very interesting to read people's (scholars included) opinion of what their 'truth' is. Just so long as it isn't represented as THE truth, for there is no such thing. That's what your comment also boils down to ( base the 'truth' on historic 'fact'. ).
There is much we can asume. And to a degree with some certainty. But claiming to know THE truth is not something I would ever dare say. :D

I.m.h.o., this thread offers potential to see what various people view as valid sources. Oh.. and 'sorry' about that 12.99 Arth! Just so you know.. I have no shares in Fries' or Amazon's business! :innocent:

Re: Good books to read for Celtic history etc.

Posted: 17 Jan 2011, 17:49
by DJ Droood
Probably why the Druids (supposedly) didn't write things down..."People of the Book"...Muslims, Christians, Celtic Reconstructionists...can get a bit hung up on the jots and tittles.

Re: Good books to read for Celtic history etc.

Posted: 17 Jan 2011, 19:25
by eilis
We started a book club / reading group on Goodreads.com - it would be great if someone could list these books on that list and please join our group! Many good books are listed there already!

http://www.goodreads.com/group/show/613 ... _OBOD_site_

Re: Good books to read for Celtic history etc.

Posted: 18 Jan 2011, 08:53
by Arth Frown
Ghostrider wrote: I.m.h.o., this thread offers potential to see what various people view as valid sources. Oh.. and 'sorry' about that 12.99 Arth! Just so you know.. I have no shares in Fries' or Amazon's business! :innocent:
Ok it did cross my mind :wink: