Purpose of "The Skeptical Druid" (was: Otherworld...)

A forum for the discussion of heuristic questions relating to Druidry using verifiable methods. Fo-fúair!
Life is short, the art long, opportunity fleeting, experiment treacherous, judgment difficult. — Hippocrates

Sturgeon's Law: Ninety percent of everything is crap.

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DJ Droood
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Purpose of "The Skeptical Druid" (was: Otherworld...)

Post by DJ Droood » 14 Jan 2011, 18:59

I would like to request a "Credulous Druids" sub-forum to provide a safe and comfortable place to discuss ouiji boards, evil spirts and the Bible....although I guess any other sub-forum but this one would probably do in a pinch.

Although if you insist on using this forum, could you at least try to provide some sort of pseudo-proof for nonsense as a bases for discussion, just to humour the spirits of The Skeptical Druid?
In this room, every controversial topic in any way related to druidry is fair game, as long as you remain rational. Less than rational interjections will be challenged ruthlessly :grin:

Attempt to outline your argumentation clearly; if you are not entirely sure you are correct, it may be a good idea to do a quick google to verify and to find a link to support your view - and so that others can judge it. However, the Internet, like all sources of information, is not infallible. Evaluate your sources critically.

When raising or contributing to a topic, expect your personal beliefs to be challenged. Do not flame anyone who may disagree with you, instead give backup info for your ideas.
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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Bartholomew » 14 Jan 2011, 19:29

Well I will discuss anything anywhere, I'm easy. The big big problem with talk of spirits and ouija boards and tarot and healing and dowsing and praying and anything that is outside the realm of the five senses is................ just that. It is subjective and good old concrete scientific proof just won't cut the mustard DJ. So I do not think that any discussion on such matters on any forum will convince anyone of anything. Seeing is believing and all that. It is by the grace of God that I am here discussing this!
"Reiki is an experience not an explanation!" Taken from my newly developed and written holistic therapy brochure. And you can say I am up my own arse with that statement but it is a lived and learned statement. Yes. I'm on this side of the fence!

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by DJ Droood » 14 Jan 2011, 19:41

Bartholomew wrote:Well I will discuss anything anywhere, I'm easy. The big big problem with talk of spirits and ouija boards and tarot and healing and dowsing and praying and anything that is outside the realm of the five senses is................ just that. It is subjective and good old concrete scientific proof just won't cut the mustard DJ. So I do not think that any discussion on such matters on any forum will convince anyone of anything. Seeing is believing and all that. It is by the grace of God that I am here discussing this!
"Reiki is an experience not an explanation!" Taken from my newly developed and written holistic therapy brochure. And you can say I am up my own arse with that statement but it is a lived and learned statement. Yes. I'm on this side of the fence!
yea...you are probaly right...I thought maybe the board could have a little ghetto for people like me...a little place to rest after riding the candy rainbow roller coaster....."scientific proof" is sooo mentally tiresome....intellectual honesty simply makes people uncomfortable....which is undruidic.

Perhaps I have things backwards....maybe it is time for The Skeptical Druid sub-forum to be retired. I suggest "Bible-Based Homeopathy" might get more hits. I will start packing my desk and getting with the new program.
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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Bartholomew » 14 Jan 2011, 20:03

There really is no need to be sarcastic DJ, you see that is what happens when you operate with the analytical side of the brain all the time. You become too cynical. The intellect does not have all the answers. Maybe some things manifest on the physical plane via spiritual energy which at this particular point in evolution science doesn't have the knowledge or tools to access the energy, maybe it is a vibrational difference.Oscillation and quantum mechanics and such like. It doesn't necessarily mean that things of a spiritual nature are not within and without. Perhaps some people have the ability to detect them somehow, through the brain or through the spiritual sense(sixth).

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by DJ Droood » 14 Jan 2011, 20:21

Bartholomew wrote:There really is no need to be sarcastic DJ, you see that is what happens when you operate with the analytical side of the brain all the time. You become too cynical. The intellect does not have all the answers. Maybe some things manifest on the physical plane via spiritual energy which at this particular point in evolution science doesn't have the knowledge or tools to access the energy, maybe it is a vibrational difference.Oscillation and quantum mechanics and such like. It doesn't necessarily mean that things of a spiritual nature are not within and without. Perhaps some people have the ability to detect them somehow, through the brain or through the spiritual sense(sixth).

You are as right as Sarah Palin is hot. Such like as quantum mechanics is just crazy talk. I resolve to be as fluffy and absorbant of spiritual syrop as one of my mom's pancakes from now on. I always thought the people who used this subforum were boring eggheads, anyway, truth be told. I feel liberated.
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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Bartholomew » 14 Jan 2011, 20:54

If you don't mind me asking DJ, are you currently working or studying in any scientific area or do you hold any qualfications in any science subject or area of scientific research?

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by DJ Droood » 14 Jan 2011, 21:02

Bartholomew wrote:If you don't mind me asking DJ, are you currently working or studying in any scientific area or do you hold any qualfications in any science subject or area of scientific research?

No, I don't mind...it is a valid question. Yes, I just won a No-Bell Prize in Astrophysiognomy. I studied the 6th through 12th senses to come to the conclusion that "Eggs is Tasty". It is more complex than that, but I am trying to make it easy for laymen to understand. As Jesus said to Ghengis Khan:
This donut has purple in the middle, purple is a fruit.
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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Bartholomew » 14 Jan 2011, 21:06

Very good, very sharp, very clever! :hug:

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by mwyalchen » 14 Jan 2011, 22:01

DJ - I suggest you simply get topics like this moved out of the Sceptical Druid section and put somewhere more appropriate.

Meanwhile, discussion of whether this topic is properly sceptical risks sidelining ainevar's original enquiry.

I'm also fairly sceptical of the "animal soul" explanation, and I don't feel it's very explanatory outside a more comprehensive system. Also, panthers may be dangerous (to prey), but are also beautiful and elegant; and wolves are notably loyal.

But, if your gut gets that uncomfortable when you go walking with him... trust yourself! How you explain it isn't so important; what you're intuiting about him is very important. Don't go walking with him in the woods again!

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Explorer » 14 Jan 2011, 22:21

Even though DJ Droood is totally crazy, he is also totally right.

Many of us think that seeking Truth is an important strand of druidry.
And Truth is not only found by hunting fairies, dowsing ley lines and exorcising evil spirits.
Some people value sound education, to learn about the mysterious language of math, the wonders of physics and the objective beauty of science.
And I am one of those also.

non-human souls do not exist, because souls don't exist.
These are concepts made up by us imaginative humans, because we find it hard to distinguish between personal emotional subjective experience and physical reality.
Which doesn't mean that we don't experience it. But by using knowledge, education and truth we can discover more honest truths about our world and ourselves.
Extraordinary claims require extraordinary evidence

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Bartholomew » 14 Jan 2011, 22:37

Whoa Nico.Souls do not exist. Give me your evidence, scientific and philosophical and intellectual.A sweeping unvalidated statement my friend. You are right in some respects mathematics, science can educate us in all fields but direct spiritual transmission overrides all of these. Spirit has no boxes, no compartments, no good and bad, better or worse it is just a state of being. All knowing omnipotent, omnipresent. It is.

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by DJ Droood » 14 Jan 2011, 22:51

mwyalchen wrote:DJ - I suggest you simply get topics like this moved out of the Sceptical Druid section and put somewhere more appropriate.
:poof:

move

:poof:

move

...it's not working....
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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Bartholomew » 14 Jan 2011, 23:05

Oh DJas a high ranking crazy dood well respected member of this online community you could get me and the whole thread removed in the press of a button. I think really really really you want fairies and father christmas and old healers and God and Jesus and Mother Mary and All the Saints in heaven to tell you that you are not a bad boy and you are not gong to hell. But if it exists we will continue the conversation in vest tops.

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Jake » 15 Jan 2011, 02:34

DJ Droood wrote:I would like to request a "Credulous Druids" sub-forum to provide a safe and comfortable place to discuss ouiji boards, evil spirts and the Bible....although I guess any other sub-forum but this one would probably do in a pinch.

Although if you insist on using this forum, could you at least try to provide some sort of pseudo-proof for nonsense as a bases for discussion, just to humour the spirits of The Skeptical Druid?
Really. Is it so much to ask that our Reiki master/exorcist/dowser/soul-believing/etc. brethren and sistren respect the parameters of this particular forum and exercise the same restraint that those who don't believe in such things demonstrate in every single other forum on this board?
Nico wrote:non-human souls do not exist, because souls don't exist.
These are concepts made up by us imaginative humans, because we find it hard to distinguish between personal emotional subjective experience and physical reality.
Which doesn't mean that we don't experience it. But by using knowledge, education and truth we can discover more honest truths about our world and ourselves.
Yes to this!
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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Lily » 15 Jan 2011, 12:48

Bartholomew wrote:Whoa Nico.Souls do not exist. Give me your evidence, scientific and philosophical and intellectual.A sweeping unvalidated statement my friend. You are right in some respects mathematics, science can educate us in all fields but direct spiritual transmission overrides all of these. Spirit has no boxes, no compartments, no good and bad, better or worse it is just a state of being. All knowing omnipotent, omnipresent. It is.
That is not how it works, Bartholomew. YOU seem to claim they do exist, the burden of Proof is on you. Hope direct Spiritual Transmission provides some tangible evidence for all of us to savor!
bright blessed days, dark sacred nights

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Bartholomew » 15 Jan 2011, 13:09

Ok, I wil have to ask some of my clients for permission to keep a written record of their experiences during a healing or other complementary session. Other than that you can all book in with me over the next few months, I've got slots available and I''l give you a Druid discount.
I believe in the existence of spirit and different planes of existence. I also believe that we all have a souls that possibly reincarnate. As I stated a few posts back it doesn't matter what is written on this forum, or any other, or in any books. You will never be able to convince someone unless they have experienced something of a spiritual nature. Spiritual experiences are by their nature hard to define and describe. Most people who are not open to them,and who see this world and the physical body as the only reality, just think you are plain mad. I am used skeptics.
Actually I think Nico and DJ Drood should bear the burden of proof also. I am open to reading any scientific, philosophic theory or other evidence that rules out the claim for the existence of the spirit world and the human soul. I think you will find that neither side can prove or disprove it.
As I hear a lot on Druid turf, we will have to agree to disagree.

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Jake » 15 Jan 2011, 16:51

Bartholomew wrote: Actually I think Nico and DJ Drood should bear the burden of proof also. I am open to reading any scientific, philosophic theory or other evidence that rules out the claim for the existence of the spirit world and the human soul. I think you will find that neither side can prove or disprove it.
As Lily said, that simply isn't how it works. The burden of proof rests on the party making a positive assertion.
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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Bartholomew » 15 Jan 2011, 19:17

Excuse me birds of a feather stickin together, I'm feeling a bit hounded and picked upon here. One, I didn't start the thread Ainevar did, and two, Hawthorn_Ent jumped in with his Bible and demonic possession. Where are they now? They've buggered off and left me holding the fort, just great!
Also I am very sure that we are being disrepectful as you have pointed out Jake by continuing to use this subforum as DJ Drood was not keen, or maybe you are just stirring it a bit.
Like I said I can trawl through some books and internet search engines and give some pointers that in my opinion indicate spiritual realms and documented cases of children recalling past lives. And on a practical level you can all go and find a local healer or two and try some stuff out for yourselves. See if you pick anything up or go to a spiritiualist church or a medium and see if you get any messages like "Bartholomew knows what she's talking about"
I could tell you some of my experiences but you could say I was making it all up. So what do you want a captured soul in a jam jar?

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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by DJ Droood » 15 Jan 2011, 19:48

Bartholomew wrote:One, I didn't start the thread Ainevar did
I don't think anyone has any objections to Ainevar's thread, although I think he may have accidentally posted it in the wrong sub-forum. Although if not, I guess he was looking for rational, reasoned responses to his dilemma (the long established and clearly stated purpose and tradition of this sub-forum)...and my apologies to Ainevar for helping send his thread off-course.

Intuition and instinct are powerful emotions that live in the boundry land between the rational and the "Otherworld" (for me, the world of imagination), and I wouldn't ignore them if I were you, Ainevar. Listen to your "gut" and be cautious with someone you don't know well or trust, and don't get in a dangerous place...alone in the woods, for instance. And listen to your friends...if they get a bad vibe from someone, and the best way they can express it is by describing evil spirits or animal souls, they are still trying to express care and concern for you and communicate their discomfort with this dude. I think we have well-honed evolutionary responses to body language, non-verbal cues, past experiences with unstable and dangerous people, and maybe even pheromones*, but whatever the reasoning is, take care of yourself.

*note: few well-controlled scientific studies have ever been published suggesting the possibility of pheromones in humans.
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Re: Otherworld...Did I have a brush with it's darker side?

Post by Bartholomew » 15 Jan 2011, 23:20

No I don't think anyone had any objections to Ainevar's thread it just got a little heated as soon as I contributed. Perhaps everyone is just waiting in the wings to give Bartholomew a good bashing if she sticks her neck out on this forum. Let's see how sarcastic and condemning the group collective can be. I find that in so called "intellectual circles" everyone has to step up to the mark and try to impress each other with their put downs.

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