Are the dragons real?

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Are the dragons real?

Post by FoxPhantom » 22 Mar 2011, 06:35

Just wanting to add that I have been having troubles talking to the animal guides and dragon that I have known for the past year. ( I keep hearing another dragon telling me that the dragon I know is busy else where). But when it comes to bringing myself to hear them I hear nothing they said.

I have been having a small conflict with my mind, since there has been a questions to if they exist or not. " Is the dragon you been talking to inside your head?" I been thinking up answers but another question comes at me like " But what if "I" am the dragon, what if "I" am the wolf, the fox, the butterfly you encountered".

and it kinda drove me out of what I did before ( looking deep inside and asking them) and had fruitless answers. I don't know what I am doing wrong, so I am wanting to ask how can I tell if they are or are not?
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by Explorer » 22 Mar 2011, 07:50

No, dragons are not real. Just like spirits, gods, santa claus and energy lines are not real.

Rule of thumb... if you hear people mutter "science cannot proof it" then they are talking about "mind stuff". Usually they don't realise it themselves, but their 'inner guides' sometimes send them to Skeptical Druid to be educated and purified. :whistle:

Most get upset and run away screaming, but some may leave with a better understanding of reality and the power of imagination. Because, in the end, it doesn't matter if they are 'real' or not. And that understanding can become a dividing line between supersticion and spiritual awarenes.

So... no, dragons are not real.
But you are probably right with your conclusions. By entering a trance-like-state we can encounter 'figures' that are thought to be part of ourselves, or even archetypical symbols. And they can be of help if you want to get a handle on certain things. The effects of working with imaginary animals can be real enough though, especially if you do (temporarily) regard them as being real (welcome to the world of magic). So be prudent.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by FoxPhantom » 22 Mar 2011, 16:24

Nico wrote:No, dragons are not real. Just like spirits, gods, santa claus and energy lines are not real.

Rule of thumb... if you hear people mutter "science cannot proof it" then they are talking about "mind stuff". Usually they don't realise it themselves, but their 'inner guides' sometimes send them to Skeptical Druid to be educated and purified. :whistle:

Most get upset and run away screaming, but some may leave with a better understanding of reality and the power of imagination. Because, in the end, it doesn't matter if they are 'real' or not. And that understanding can become a dividing line between supersticion and spiritual awarenes.

So... no, dragons are not real.
But you are probably right with your conclusions. By entering a trance-like-state we can encounter 'figures' that are thought to be part of ourselves, or even archetypical symbols. And they can be of help if you want to get a handle on certain things. The effects of working with imaginary animals can be real enough though, especially if you do (temporarily) regard them as being real (welcome to the world of magic). So be prudent.
Ah, so I guess that's one thing I do need to learn more on, to know when to be Prudent.
Thank you, this got me to laugh at myself since I guess I was fooling myself. XD
(edit: Yep I am still very novice like).
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by Explorer » 22 Mar 2011, 19:06

FoxPhantom wrote:
Ah, so I guess that's one thing I do need to learn more on, to know when to be Prudent.
Thank you, this got me to laugh at myself since I guess I was fooling myself. XD

Edit: So what if the dragon I encountered is part of me? Or does it reflect not a part of me rather the knowledge built that I learned through out the year, as it reflects like a mirror, doesn't that mean I have been staring right into my very own mind without knowing? (yeah another question since I think I got something, but I don't know yet).
Well, I'm not saying that you are fooling yourself. And the fact that you look at this with such an open visor shows wisdom.
I think you could be right. You could be staring into your own mind, a subconscious part of it perhaps.

I'm not sure how this works exactly, but I think that we feed these images/experiences ourselves. And that it becomes a sort of mirror, as you say. And perhaps some part of the image goes deeper to a sort of collective... mmm... understanding/memory. Like most of us seem to fear lightning or spiders, and enjoy the sunrise. So it may be part nature and part nurture.

I do know that it is something that we can work with, regardless of how we try to pin it down exactly. I've had some very interesting experiences that way, and I'm one of the very down-to-earth druids. But what is always important is to take it with a grain of salt and common sense. If some advice from 'the otherworld', or your subconscious, or whatever, doesn't feel right, then just ignore it.

To me this stuff often feels a bit like dreams. Do you know how you sometimes experience emotions in your dreams that you can trace back to something that happened earlier but the imagery doesn't fit? This is the same thing. The trick is to connect those dots to decipher messages from 'the otherworld'. So only you can figure out if there is any personal meaning for you in those experiences with these 'inner dragons'.
At least that is how I see it.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by FoxPhantom » 22 Mar 2011, 21:17

Nico wrote:Well, I'm not saying that you are fooling yourself. And the fact that you look at this with such an open visor shows wisdom.
I think you could be right. You could be staring into your own mind, a subconscious part of it perhaps.

I'm not sure how this works exactly, but I think that we feed these images/experiences ourselves. And that it becomes a sort of mirror, as you say. And perhaps some part of the image goes deeper to a sort of collective... mmm... understanding/memory. Like most of us seem to fear lightning or spiders, and enjoy the sunrise. So it may be part nature and part nurture.

Huh, I never thought about open minded as showing wisdom.
Nico wrote:I do know that it is something that we can work with, regardless of how we try to pin it down exactly. I've had some very interesting experiences that way, and I'm one of the very down-to-earth druids. But what is always important is to take it with a grain of salt and common sense. If some advice from 'the otherworld', or your subconscious, or whatever, doesn't feel right, then just ignore it.
Good to know actually. So how does it work to take the grain of salt with the common sense?
Nico wrote:To me this stuff often feels a bit like dreams. Do you know how you sometimes experience emotions in your dreams that you can trace back to something that happened earlier but the imagery doesn't fit? This is the same thing. The trick is to connect those dots to decipher messages from 'the otherworld'. So only you can figure out if there is any personal meaning for you in those experiences with these 'inner dragons'.
At least that is how I see it.

I remember a couple of dreams pulling me in for something, I wonder if dreams goes on with what happens during the day but retells it as if something was missed?
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by reilz81 » 23 Mar 2011, 06:50

dragons are real i have had many expieriences with them for it to be anything but real i have heard them singing running through the bush even taking flames from a lit stick i have seen there eyes twinkling back at me the problem is they are etheric beings so they cross over to the physical for only brief periods i have also invited them for their help in ritual

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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by Explorer » 23 Mar 2011, 09:08

FoxPhantom wrote: Good to know actually. So how does it work to take the grain of salt with the common sense?
Don't believe everything people tell you, don't act on messages from the 'otherworld' without thinking. Question things and stay in control of your own choices.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by cat » 23 Mar 2011, 11:16

Are the Dragons real?
Humm i've thought about this, what is reality anyway?

Our mind is a very powerful thing as i found out through some very difficult experinces myself.

If your mind generates experinces for you subconcuiusly then yes its real too you. But its up to you to decide how to interpret / use your experinces.

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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by DJ Droood » 23 Mar 2011, 11:59

I think a good rule of thumb is if you have to talk yourself into something with a philosophical debate about reality, and start googling "string theory" and "quantum physics" to shore up whatever it is you are trying to convince yourself of, it probably only lives in your imagination...you don' have to fuss and wonder about apples, for instance.

Imagination is great, though...you can let other people see what is real inside your head through stories and music and drawing, etc.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by cursuswalker » 23 Mar 2011, 13:55

The human imagination is best treated as one would a very powerful sports car. It can be great fun to use, but if you don't control it properly it can take you to places where you really should not go, or into trees by the side of the road that are really best avoided.

By all means have a rich fantasy life that takes you out of the everyday and through which you can reflect on deeper meanings in life. But never forget that it is still not reality.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by DaRC » 23 Mar 2011, 14:11

No, dragons are not real. Just like spirits, gods, santa claus and energy lines are not real.
Hmmm what about on Kimodo island?
Then there's Vodka, Absinthe and a personal favourite Jaegermeister plus the girlies favourite Goldschlager...
Then there's that curious definition of what is god(ess) - is it a cultural meme, a statue, a painting or just in the detail?
Then the spirit of the Christmas season that enforces jollity upon all at the party, just where is he. :where: I've seen a Miracle on 34th Street (my wife makes me watch every year 'cos she kissed him when he presented her her degree) :whistle:
and finally just what are those cables that march across the countryside carrying?

I guess it's all in the perspective.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by cursuswalker » 23 Mar 2011, 15:40

DaRC wrote:
No, dragons are not real. Just like spirits, gods, santa claus and energy lines are not real.
Hmmm what about on Kimodo island?
Then there's Vodka, Absinthe and a personal favourite Jaegermeister plus the girlies favourite Goldschlager...
Then there's that curious definition of what is god(ess) - is it a cultural meme, a statue, a painting or just in the detail?
Then the spirit of the Christmas season that enforces jollity upon all at the party, just where is he. :where: I've seen a Miracle on 34th Street (my wife makes me watch every year 'cos she kissed him when he presented her her degree) :whistle:
and finally just what are those cables that march across the countryside carrying?

I guess it's all in the perspective.
And the dictionary.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by FoxPhantom » 23 Mar 2011, 17:33

Ok, so from what I read on the dragons do live on, but what we think isn't unreal either, rather the imagination used for seeing them is the same source for drawing but in a different perspective?

(Oi what a headache XD)
cursuswalker wrote:The human imagination is best treated as one would a very powerful sports car. It can be great fun to use, but if you don't control it properly it can take you to places where you really should not go, or into trees by the side of the road that are really best avoided.

By all means have a rich fantasy life that takes you out of the everyday and through which you can reflect on deeper meanings in life. But never forget that it is still not reality.
So it is something that should be best respected, while keeping the control in your hand?
DJ Droood wrote:I think a good rule of thumb is if you have to talk yourself into something with a philosophical debate about reality, and start googling "string theory" and "quantum physics" to shore up whatever it is you are trying to convince yourself of, it probably only lives in your imagination...you don' have to fuss and wonder about apples, for instance.

Imagination is great, though...you can let other people see what is real inside your head through stories and music and drawing, etc.
I wonder if being a artist is easier or harder, since I draw, and I do bring out some fun ideas. But I wonder, would the power be over whelming for a artist, or is it because what they think is out of control, really in control?

DaRC wrote:
No, dragons are not real. Just like spirits, gods, santa claus and energy lines are not real.
Hmmm what about on Kimodo island?
Then there's Vodka, Absinthe and a personal favourite Jaegermeister plus the girlies favourite Goldschlager...
Then there's that curious definition of what is god(ess) - is it a cultural meme, a statue, a painting or just in the detail?
Then the spirit of the Christmas season that enforces jollity upon all at the party, just where is he. :where: I've seen a Miracle on 34th Street (my wife makes me watch every year 'cos she kissed him when he presented her her degree) :whistle:
and finally just what are those cables that march across the countryside carrying?

I guess it's all in the perspective.
Auras are real, psychics are real, same as being able to feel energy. (In my perspective) So if my perspective was not existent, it would make it real? or would it simply be all in my head? Guess the whole world is real, but what about everyone else? Is it possible everyone is dreaming the same thing all at once?
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by DJ Droood » 23 Mar 2011, 18:04

FoxPhantom wrote:
DJ Droood wrote:I think a good rule of thumb is if you have to talk yourself into something with a philosophical debate about reality, and start googling "string theory" and "quantum physics" to shore up whatever it is you are trying to convince yourself of, it probably only lives in your imagination...you don' have to fuss and wonder about apples, for instance.

Imagination is great, though...you can let other people see what is real inside your head through stories and music and drawing, etc.
I wonder if being a artist is easier or harder, since I draw, and I do bring out some fun ideas. But I wonder, would the power be over whelming for a artist, or is it because what they think is out of control, really in control?
Being an artist is magical and empowering..and social..you can take what is real to you in your head and transform it into something that is real for everyone...a beautiful piece of art.

One of the saddest things to me about the New Age "we make our own reality" mantra is this attitude creates isolation....it suggests that everyone can happily live in their own heads, not having to interact with the "reality" of others...if something about the world bothers you, simply retreat and "imagine" something dfferent....lazy and defeatest, imo.

The realist's approach is social and about others, not just ourselves....we come together and share an understanding of how the world works, and trust each other.

The artist is the "go between"...making a bridge between imagination and collective reality.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by Ghostrider » 24 Mar 2011, 19:18

Why do you need to ask?

Do you believe in Dragons? Then they are real.

Even if they are 'mere' creations of the mind, does that make them less real? You're mind is real. Your thoughts are real, so why would the experiences your receive from 'something' (your mind, the Spirits, Gods or even Santa) be unreal?
Apparently there is 'something' which considders these things to be necessary. Even if the answers you 'receive' are incoherrent. Perhaps there is a reason for you to figure them out.

As long as you remain true to yourself and 'reality' (whatever that may be), there should be no problem.
The trick is indeed to remain in control of your thoughts. If you start doing things because 'you were told to' then there is a good chance you might be wondering into parts that could get you in trouble. Always keep thinking.

A good part of (current) Dragonlore is to discover and control your own thoughts and actions and see what the Dragons can contribute to that. CONTRIBUTE, not CONTROL. Discover what 'works' for you and if that is 'stuff' others dismiss as fictional, then just remember that it is 'fiction' from YOUR mind and it may be 'stuff' that YOU need.

Just because something is (or is considdered) fiction, does not make it less Spiritual.

In the words of a great teacher on Dragons: May the Runes rise to the Moonlight and the Dragons guard your back. :innocent:
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by DJ Droood » 24 Mar 2011, 19:33

Ghostrider wrote:Even if they are 'mere' creations of the mind, does that make them less real? You're mind is real. Your thoughts are real, so why would the experiences your receive from 'something' (your mind, the Spirits, Gods or even Santa) be unreal?
Dillusional disorders could have a number of causes....biological, genetic, brain injury, drugs.....not saying that the querent has any of those, but I think it is important to distinguish between a healthy imagination and the lonely, frightening experience of seeing and hearing things others don't.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by cursuswalker » 24 Mar 2011, 20:00

FoxPhantom wrote: Auras are real, psychics are real, same as being able to feel energy. (In my perspective) So if my perspective was not existent, it would make it real? or would it simply be all in my head? Guess the whole world is real, but what about everyone else? Is it possible everyone is dreaming the same thing all at once?
Occam's Razor demands the explanation that introduces the least unwarranted assumptions.

So if we are all dreaming then that assumes a "real" place where we are doing this. For which the evidence is.....nothing. So we slice that away and conclude that we are not all dreaming the same dream. This is really happening.

That, like all conclusions, is provisional upon no furhter evidence coming to light, such as Lawrence Fishburn turning up at your front door with a red pill and a blue pill.
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by FoxPhantom » 24 Mar 2011, 21:45

Ghostrider wrote:Why do you need to ask?

Do you believe in Dragons? Then they are real.

Even if they are 'mere' creations of the mind, does that make them less real? You're mind is real. Your thoughts are real, so why would the experiences your receive from 'something' (your mind, the Spirits, Gods or even Santa) be unreal?
Apparently there is 'something' which considders these things to be necessary. Even if the answers you 'receive' are incoherrent. Perhaps there is a reason for you to figure them out.

As long as you remain true to yourself and 'reality' (whatever that may be), there should be no problem.
The trick is indeed to remain in control of your thoughts. If you start doing things because 'you were told to' then there is a good chance you might be wondering into parts that could get you in trouble. Always keep thinking.

A good part of (current) Dragonlore is to discover and control your own thoughts and actions and see what the Dragons can contribute to that. CONTRIBUTE, not CONTROL. Discover what 'works' for you and if that is 'stuff' others dismiss as fictional, then just remember that it is 'fiction' from YOUR mind and it may be 'stuff' that YOU need.

Just because something is (or is considdered) fiction, does not make it less Spiritual.

In the words of a great teacher on Dragons: May the Runes rise to the Moonlight and the Dragons guard your back. :innocent:
ok, sorry I asked, thanks for the advice.
(I guess I have a lot of things to do then).
cursuswalker wrote:
FoxPhantom wrote: Auras are real, psychics are real, same as being able to feel energy. (In my perspective) So if my perspective was not existent, it would make it real? or would it simply be all in my head? Guess the whole world is real, but what about everyone else? Is it possible everyone is dreaming the same thing all at once?
Occam's Razor demands the explanation that introduces the least unwarranted assumptions.

So if we are all dreaming then that assumes a "real" place where we are doing this. For which the evidence is.....nothing. So we slice that away and conclude that we are not all dreaming the same dream. This is really happening.

That, like all conclusions, is provisional upon no furhter evidence coming to light, such as Lawrence Fishburn turning up at your front door with a red pill and a blue pill.
Ok, so what I thought was entirely wrong. So then if everything exists not as everyone one dreams the earth to be, then everything is as it is?
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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by treegod » 24 Mar 2011, 22:44

Had a conversation like this once:

- I think gods and spirits are imaginary.

- Are you saying that they aren't real?

- Are you saying the imagination isn't real?

Could go for dragons too :wink:

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Re: Are the dragons real?

Post by FoxPhantom » 24 Mar 2011, 23:11

treegod wrote:Had a conversation like this once:

- I think gods and spirits are imaginary.

- Are you saying that they aren't real?

- Are you saying the imagination isn't real?

Could go for dragons too :wink:
Sorry, I guess I am far too deep in the questions and in search of answers for what's real and what's not. (In other words: I failed).

No they aren't real, but if they aren't real then why go for looking for an answer that is as elusive as finding big foot? (pretty much I think this is my answer, including when I fell on face from this). :gloomy:
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