Geocentrism

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Geocentrism

Postby envisager » 14 Apr 2012, 09:42

Hi there. I'm new to this forum. I should introduce myself: I have been working in renewable energy and sustainability for many years and am on various advisory panels, mostly related to sustainability. In particular, we have been developing renewable solar energy systems which are effectively based on a geocentric worldview.
Druidry emphasizes the sacredness of all life, and our part in the great web of creation. It cares passionately about the preservation and protection of the environment, and offers a worldview, which is ecological, geocentric, pragmatic, idealistic, spiritual and romantic.
Quote taken from: http://www.druidry.org/board/dhp/index.php

In the description of Druidry above, it is said that Druidry offers a geocentric worldview. Does this mean the same types of system as described by Plato, Ptolemy and Aristotle or does Druidy offer something intrinsically different?

Thanks!

Geocentric model: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Geocentric_model

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Re: Geocentrism

Postby Lily » 14 Apr 2012, 11:05

the correct link would be

http://www.druidry.org/druid-way/what-d ... ts-druidry

and I would argue strongly that it has NOTHING to do with a patently false cosmology. I would say it means "put the earth first" synonymously with the word immediately preceding it in the quote.

ah. I searched in a dictionary.
ge·o·cen·tric

adjective
1. having or representing the earth as a center: a geocentric theory of the universe.
2. using the earth or earthly life as the only basis of evaluation.
3. viewed or measured as from the center of the earth: the geocentric position of the moon.


so probably in line with 2.
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Re: Geocentrism

Postby Fox » 14 Apr 2012, 12:07

Envisager, what do you mean when in your original post you said
we have been developing renewable solar energy systems which are effectively based on a geocentric worldview
I'm with Sherlock Holmes, ultimately, it makes no practical difference to me whether the sun goes around the earth or the earth goes around the sun!
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Re: Geocentrism

Postby envisager » 14 Apr 2012, 13:01

I'm with Sherlock Holmes, ultimately, it makes no practical difference to me whether the sun goes around the earth or the earth goes around the sun!
I'm with Sherlock too. Given that Einstein showed that there is no ether, it's possible to argue that any viewpoint from any frame of reference is equally valid. Although Geocentrism is superseded, that doesn't make it patently false (in my opinion) because it is possible to use the mathematics generated by this world-view for modern applications.

For example, in our focusing systems, it's much simpler to assume that the earth is fixed rather than trying to re-work the maths for a heliocentric model (rather like not using Einstein's theory to determine the trajectory of a rocket launch when Newton's laws will do the job more easily and just as well).

The systems I've looked at also allow celestial movement to be explained from a wholly geocentric viewpoint (albeit superseded from today's point of view). The odd thing is that these explanation methods appear to be duplicated in some early British structures: I was wondering, because the word 'geocentric' was used, whether there is any known specific connection between Druidism and a very early version of Geocentric cosmology? (particularly if that might be generated from the times prior to the Celtic influx)

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Re: Geocentrism

Postby Lily » 14 Apr 2012, 15:46

I was wondering, because the word 'geocentric' was used, whether there is any known specific connection between Druidism and a very early version of Geocentric cosmology? (particularly if that might be generated from the times prior to the Celtic influx)
http://www.radical-astrology.com/irish/ ... ellis.html
Ellis argues that the early Irish hat a Pythagorean model. This is sort of heliocentric as far as I could find, although only Kepler really "got" heliocentrism "right". Therefore they might have had a heliocentric worldview. But I am not sure how to interpret what's in the article.

re: some calculations can be based on assumptions just taking into account the movement of the sun across our sky, without needing the full heliocentric model - I guess so - but still the knowledge is there that our solar system is not centered around the earth and therefore I stand by what I said. A geocentric cosmology is patently false.
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Re: Geocentrism

Postby envisager » 14 Apr 2012, 18:29

Thanks Lily

The Pythagorean model is geocentric rather than heliocentric. His model differs from other Greek philosophers of the period (approx 500BC) in some subtle ways; for instance the planets were postulated to revolve around the earth but that the earth is surrounded by an unseen fire (an aperture in the outer shell of the universe forms the sun). Interestingly, Pythagorus was known to be in contact with a priest: Abaris of the Hyperboreans (who are often associated with Britain because of the descriptions recorded by Diodorus Siculus). The first mention of a Heliocentric system occurred with Aristarchus, a couple of hundred years later, but was not generally accepted for another thousand years or so.

At the time of Aristarchus, the Geocentric model was generally accepted to be the height of scientific knowledge at that time. Though today we might treat it as theory which is outdated, it is not wholly incorrect because it represents a reasonable approximation of the Universe for the time, in the same way that Newton's laws are not wholly incorrect and represent an even better approximation. Out of interest, Diodorus Siculus goes on to note, in other chapters of Bibliotheca Historica, that the geocentric model did not originate in Greece.

Thanks again for your input

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Re: Geocentrism

Postby Explorer » 14 Apr 2012, 18:53

Druidry emphasizes the sacredness of all life, and our part in the great web of creation. It cares passionately about the preservation and protection of the environment, and offers a worldview, which is ecological, geocentric, pragmatic, idealistic, spiritual and romantic.
Quote taken from: http://www.druidry.org/board/dhp/index.php

In the description of Druidry above, it is said that Druidry offers a geocentric worldview. Does this mean the same types of system as described by Plato, Ptolemy and Aristotle or does Druidy offer something intrinsically different?
Hi Envisager, welcome on DHP.

Like Lily says, you compare apples with pears here, the term 'geocentric' in this druidry context means something totally different than the cosmological context of these classical philosophers.
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Re: Geocentrism

Postby envisager » 14 Apr 2012, 19:09

Like Lily says, you compare apples with pears here, the term 'geocentric' in this druidry context means something totally different than the cosmological context of these classical philosophers.
Thanks Explorer.

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Re: Geocentrism

Postby Explorer » 14 Apr 2012, 19:27

Like Lily says, you compare apples with pears here, the term 'geocentric' in this druidry context means something totally different than the cosmological context of these classical philosophers.
Thanks Explorer.
Good! Glad we have that misunderstanding out of the way without drama :grin:.

In a astronomical context we do use 'geocentric' though. I work at an observatory, and my job is to make software for our telecopes. And much observing is actually done in 'geocentric' modes. That doesn't mean that we think that the earth is the center of the universe, but that we need to calculate where our observing targets are relative to our telescopes on the surface of the planet. We actually use a very local geocentric coordinate system then. (azimuth and elevation).
(but this doesn't have anything to do with druidry).
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Re: Geocentrism

Postby Lily » 14 Apr 2012, 21:44

glad you explained the difference, Explorer :)
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Re: Geocentrism

Postby envisager » 15 Apr 2012, 08:20

In a astronomical context we do use 'geocentric' though. I work at an observatory, and my job is to make software for our telecopes. And much observing is actually done in 'geocentric' modes. That doesn't mean that we think that the earth is the center of the universe, but that we need to calculate where our observing targets are relative to our telescopes on the surface of the planet. We actually use a very local geocentric coordinate system then. (azimuth and elevation).
(but this doesn't have anything to do with druidry).
Thanks Lily, that's really what I wanted to know; whether or not there was any known link, in the origins of druidry, with the astronomical methods/knowledge of Geocentrism (wasn't trying to be 'difficult' about the scientific basis of Geocentrism). As it happens, I'm taking the kids to Herstmonceux today: They absolutely love the place. The 'geocentric' mode which is commonly used at observatories has exactly the same principle as those which I use for the fixed mirror focusing devices.

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Re: Geocentrism

Postby envisager » 16 Apr 2012, 10:39

Oops, just realised I was responding to explorer, not Lily. Sorry about that!

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Re: Geocentrism

Postby envisager » 18 Jul 2012, 12:19

The thread's pretty much closed now, but thought I'd share the reasons behind my enquiry:

Of Geocentrism:
http://heavenshenge.blogspot.co.uk/2011 ... -told.html

Of systems to demonstrate the spherical nature of the movement of the Sun:
http://heavenshenge.blogspot.co.uk/2012 ... art-5.html
and:
http://heavenshenge.blogspot.co.uk/2012 ... henge.html

Of the Arthurian grail:
http://heavenshenge.blogspot.co.uk/2012 ... grail.html


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