So, about Trolls....

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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Whitemane » 04 Dec 2014, 01:45

I've been told off by the admins before now :oops: I was new here at the time.

Everybody deserves a second chance, so a telling off should be enough for the honest mistake. Repeated trollery should be treated robustly.
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby DJ Droood » 04 Dec 2014, 02:27

It is a pretty quiet board these days...why, I remember some epic trolls...shape-shifting neo-nazis and such...but from someone who has been accused of trolling many times, I think you have to be clear about the terms....you want to do everything to encourage debate, even heated, with obvious rules about personal attacks and such. I think it can be too easy to label someone you disagree with a troll or a bully. The community usually sorts things out. So much is within our control here..what threads we wants to chat in, who we want to engage with. Also, keep in mind that there are big time zone differences and sometimes someone will stir the pot and disappear, but they may just be sleeping or something! And Big Brother is always watching and can step in, if needed.
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Aemilius » 04 Dec 2014, 02:57

....just curious really. I don't see any clear policy on this thread about them. Do you allow them to go off and banter with them, ignore them, or are you of the opinion that their accounts should be deleted? Where do you all fall on the issue? Does anyone really care one way or another?

nollaig
I think (open to correction as always) I would be safe in assuming that an entire thread has just been launched against me.... that's a first!

Well, nollaig, looking at my posts here to date, there's clearly no history to support your ridiculous insinuation, and a list of some of the most rewarding exchanges I've had here includes the likes of DJ Drood, oakapple, treegod, Al Hakim, Merlyn, Lily, Explorer and a number of others.... not surprisingly, you are not on that list.

Your starting an entire thread in The Skeptical Druid just to call me a troll (without backing it up) in my opinion is the textbook definition of bufoonery.

You should really either back up all that drivel (and it is drivel) or take it back, it's just as simple as that.... nice to meet you by the way.
Last edited by Aemilius on 04 Dec 2014, 06:04, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Aemilius » 04 Dec 2014, 03:25

I've been told off by the admins before now :oops: I was new here at the time.

Everybody deserves a second chance, so a telling off should be enough for the honest mistake. Repeated trollery should be treated robustly.
A telling off should be good enough for what? I haven't even said anything yet! All I've done is attempt to "test the water" and find out what those in this community thought on the issue (of 9/11) that they could, ideally, back up with some factual, preferably empirically verifiable information.

Same with you Whitemane.... you're not on the list either.
Last edited by Aemilius on 04 Dec 2014, 04:45, edited 1 time in total.
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Selene » 04 Dec 2014, 03:34

Nollaig, the general recommendation is "don't feed the trolls." This advice is rarely followed, of course; there's something about trolls that make them extraordinarily hard for most folks to ignore. That said, we don't allow trolls, fed or not, to run rampant. If a troll persists in trolling, (or is otherwise being offensive) someone please click the exclamation point above the offending post to flag a mod or admin (sending one of us a PM with the link to the post to let us know something is going on works fine, too). We'll check it out and if necessary, will contact the poster by PM and issue a course correction. If that fails to solve the problem, the troll's account may be suspended or deactivated. We don't delete people's accounts unless they themselves request it, and we prefer not to do it even then. Deletion is permanent; deactivation can be reversed with the click of a button. As Whitemane said, most people do deserve second chances. Some even deserve third chances. We don't have hard and fast rules about it because people don't fit well into boxes and we prefer to deal with things on a case-by-case basis.

The case to which I think you are referring is currently under review.

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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Aemilius » 04 Dec 2014, 03:45

Nollaig, the general recommendation is "don't feed the trolls." This advice is rarely followed, of course; there's something about trolls that make them extraordinarily hard for most folks to ignore. That said, we don't allow trolls, fed or not, to run rampant. If a troll persists in trolling, (or is otherwise being offensive) someone please click the exclamation point above the offending post to flag a mod or admin (sending one of us a PM with the link to the post to let us know something is going on works fine, too). We'll check it out and if necessary, will contact the poster by PM and issue a course correction. If that fails to solve the problem, the troll's account may be suspended or deactivated. We don't delete people's accounts unless they themselves request it, and we prefer not to do it even then. Deletion is permanent; deactivation can be reversed with the click of a button. As Whitemane said, most people do deserve second chances. Some even deserve third chances. We don't have hard and fast rules about it because people don't fit well into boxes and we prefer to deal with things on a case-by-case basis.

The case to which I think you are referring is currently under review.

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I mean, Selene
So you think I'm a troll too Selene? Well then, since I was never considered to be a troll before, why not simply delete the topic, and I can return to my former status of member in good standing. I'll naturally remain astonished, of course (if that's still allowed), that all this came about over an area of inquiry I never actually expressed any view about here.

Thanks for your consideration.
Last edited by Aemilius on 04 Dec 2014, 03:49, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Selene » 04 Dec 2014, 03:47

Aemilius, Nollaig asked me a question about policy; I answered. When a matter is brought to our attention, we check it out. If action is warranted, we take action; if it is not, we don't.
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Aemilius » 04 Dec 2014, 04:03

Aemilius, Nollaig asked me a question about policy; I answered. When a matter is brought to our attention, we check it out. If action is warranted, we take action; if it is not, we don't.
Thanks for that clarification Selene. In view of my history here and the fact that I haven't actually said anything yet, perhaps you can understand how I might be just a little mystified at all this. It's incredible to me that I could actually face being banned or even being censured for simply asking a question and noting that there was no factual information provided in support of any of the responses.

By the way, is it common here for members to bring matters to your attention, for example about trolls, by starting an entire thread devoted exclusively to just baselessly accusing someone of being one? What's does policy say about that?

Again.... thanks for your consideration.
Last edited by Aemilius on 04 Dec 2014, 08:07, edited 2 times in total.
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby ShadowCat » 04 Dec 2014, 07:42

Do you allow them to go off and banter with them, ignore them, or are you of the opinion that their accounts should be deleted? Where do you all fall on the issue? Does anyone really care one way or another?
As an avid user, I do care about how this board feels. For as long as I remember this board meanders along nicely. Me likey that. I have credited this to the fact that we are just a bunch of swell folk here. :grin: The odd spamming handbag or raybanseller gets booted nice and cleanly and if weirdo's (even weirder than the regulars :whistle:) try to get a hold, the discussions often just die out in a matter of days.

Also, faster media like FB have become host to heated to-and-fro discussions that where formally held in slowchat mode on boards similar to this. Therefore boards might attrack less malvolent folk than before. Although shapeshifting nazi's sound like interesting supervillains for a Hellboy movie, I'd rather steer clear of them in my daily life.

Personally I just ignore posts if I feel they might get a negative atmosphere. If I don't understand a reply (remember, we are not only in different timezones, many here are also not native English speakers so language and misunderstanding can also be at the root of the problem) I ask by PM before replieing publicly. Spam, obvious rulebreaking or personal attacks (on me or others) I flag for the admins to look at, always writing the admins a note with it on why I flagged a post.
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby treegod » 11 Dec 2014, 23:03

A real troll comes on, causes a stink (and for me provides a bit of sport), soon gets kicked off, or suspended or whatever, and then soon after mysterious spam threads start turning up, as happened here once. Shame it stopped; I was beginning to have fun :roll:
A real troll gets lols out of winding people up, so they usually come with a certain (twisted) sense of humour, and despite their offensive and reactionary appearance, they can be quite lucid and deliberate in their thinking, which is part of their trap, and if you react... you lose the game! Can't say I detected this spirit. Recent events seemed relatively tame and not worthy of be titled Trolling. :old:

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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Dathi » 12 Dec 2014, 01:41

Yeah, we haven't had a decent troll for a while. I don't regard anything I've seen recently as trolling. Some folk have communication styles that are different from the normal DHP chat.

In fact, although I've not been as regular here this year, I do believe we have got through 2014 without a fairly common kind of visitor of the "You lot are not real Druids" type. Such visits are quite fun because there is always a zealous mid-term Bard to rush to our collective defence. It is then a case of Shadowcat's "Popcorn, and settle back to watch the show" :whistle:

On the subject, it would be well worth snipping out her "discourse on discourse" and placing it somewhere as a "sticky".

But what I can't abide is a spammer. Such creatures are to be blown off with swift obliteration and banning with foul imprecations!

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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby MountainGnome » 12 Dec 2014, 03:19

Trolling is usually taken to be intentionally bothering people only for the sake of irritating them.

I would advise anyone to consider whether they are not considering others' freedom of expression as trolling simply because they don't like what they're reading. That's a lot different than intentionally trying to get on peoples' nerves for no good reason.

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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Bart » 16 Dec 2014, 10:05

And all I wonder is why this is a skeptical druid topic. Granted, skeptical druids sometimes are perceived as trolls.

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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Whitemane » 16 Dec 2014, 12:48

And all I wonder is why this is a skeptical druid topic. Granted, skeptical druids sometimes are perceived as trolls.
Maybe it's because a lot of us live under bridges...
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Bart » 17 Dec 2014, 13:40

Well I prefer an empty barrel, but a nice roman bridge is nice too. :grin:

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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Whitemane » 17 Dec 2014, 15:20

Well I prefer an empty barrel, but a nice roman bridge is nice too. :grin:
Troll out the barrel :gulp:
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Merlyn » 31 Jan 2015, 19:02

:thinking: A bit of dust on this two month old thread. The pruner hasn't gotten to it yet. :o
Aemilius is a wonderful treasure trove of druidry. I do remember his views being "topical" and my curiosity stirred.
Truth is once simply asked Aemilius shared some very interesting art and views I had enjoyed. :hug:

Druidism is a wonderfully diverse thing, as much as it is a chosen path. When our views are challenged, we can always find out if we are being truly antagonized or...
just possibly we might miss an opportunity to see from a different point of view. :shake:

No one is expected to adopt anyone else's view, any insistence we do so is very obviously wrong. I often am disappointed when I find a book I think I will like, and in the introduction is a list of how not to believe or do something. This tells me very quickly the author not only wants to change my mind but has fear his writing cannot do so or stand on it's own.
If this is the case, the book returns to the shelf.

Writing is an art and most people are exploring this art form when posting to a board like this. If something seems out of place, odd or even antagonizing to the reader, jumping to the troll conclusion may well cause reaction that "feeds the troll", but in effect is trolling also, and the board admin has to do what should have been done in the first place, ask the poster a couple of simple questions. Even in the heat of argument, for the most part, respectfully asking a poster to tell you a little about him/herself and possibly what their goals are will clear the air for what most often becomes something interesting to learn.

Now, that said, there are some rather bored people who argue a point of view for the sake of it, really have no stake in the argument, but enjoy exploring a topic by playing the devil's advocate, so to speak. We even have a forum for that kind of thing, and it is this forum. Being skeptical in some ways is healthy, overdone it's just annoying.

Stomping about insisting our view is the only one is really rare. But this is often the mistake to react to it, and in these rare cases, simply remember it's like a book, simply place it back on the shelf, and find another. If it truly is a troll, it will be a very lonely one :wink:

In the light of peer review, statistical proof, spelling or historical accuracy, this is indeed my view alone. :-)

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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby DJ Droood » 31 Jan 2015, 19:12

:thinking: A bit of dust on this two year old thread. The pruner hasn't gotten to it yet. :o
You need to calibrate the dials on your time machine, Merlyn....this thread is from 2 months ago!
Now, that said, there are some rather bored people who argue a point of view for the sake of it, really have no stake in the argument, but enjoy exploring a topic by playing the devil's advocate, so to speak.
I'm afraid I have to disagree.
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby Merlyn » 31 Jan 2015, 23:58

Historical correction, made. :anx:
Good to "see" you DJ Droood :shake:

Troll policy is a bored matter :grin:
But as a devil's advocate one could say: Troll's aren't bored at all!
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Re: So, about Trolls....

Postby DaRC » 02 Feb 2015, 14:22

Troll's aren't bored at all!
Indeed they tend to hide under the boredwalk :whistle: ...
i believe this known, by the trollkids, as Dad humour :grin:
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