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Welsh names of Ogham Trees?

Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 19:18
by Dryadia2
I would like to know the correct names (and spellings) of Ogham Trees in Welsh.  I have found some conflicting ones.  Would someone please let me know which are right, and wrong, and correct me. :shake:   Thank you. :)

birch                          bedwen, bedw
rowan                        cerdinen, criafol
alder                          gwernen
willow                         helygen, helgen
ash                            onnen
hawthorn                    draenen wen, ysbyddaden
oak                            derwen, dar
holly                           celynnen, celyn
hazel                          collen
apple                          afal
vine                            gwinwydden
ivy                              eiddew, iorwg
broom/fern, reed         eithin/rhedynen, cawnen
blackthorn                   draenen ddu, draenenwen
elder                           ysgawen, ysgaw
fir/pine                        ffynidwydden/pinwydden
gorse                          eithin
heather                        grug
aspen(white poplar)      aethnen
yew                             ywen
aspen                          aethnen
spindle                         piswydden
honeysuckle                  gwyddfid
gooseberry                   eirin Mair
beech                           ffawydden

Peace and Blessings,
:dryadia: /|\

Posted: 27 Aug 2006, 19:35
by Megli
hi! the ones that have two forms, one ending in an -en, one not, are both valid; the -en is called a 'singulative' ending: so 'bedw' is birch trees in general, but a single specific birch is a 'bedwen'. Ditto 'gwern, gwernen' etc.


birch                          bedwen, bedw
rowan                        cerdinen, criafol
Both fine. You may also find 'cerddinen'.

alder                          gwernen
'gwernen' is a single alder tree, the alder in general is 'gwern' and is directly cognate with Irish fearn, 'alder'.

willow                         helygen, helgen
ash                            onnen

Or 'onn' for ash trees in general, esp in older Welsh.

hawthorn                    draenen wen, ysbyddaden
Again both fine, but Ysbyddaden is probably a bit archaic. (Cf. the name of Olwen's father...!) 'draenen wen' simply means 'a whitethorn'

oak                            derwen, dar

Both fine, but see above for the singulative. 'Derw' is also possible.

holly                           celynnen, celyn
As above.

hazel                          collen
or 'coll'...again as above.

apple                          afal
But a single aple tree is 'afallen'

vine                            gwinwydden

Literally 'wine-wood'

ivy                              eiddew, iorwg

Both fine.

broom/fern, reed         eithin/rhedynen, cawnen

you can also say 'corsen'. Again with the -en ending.

blackthorn                   draenen ddu, draenenwen

Some confusion here. Draenen ddu is 'blackthorn', but draenenwen is 'whitethorn' usually meaning 'hawthorn' - indeed as you give above.

elder                           ysgawen, ysgaw
Singulatives again.

fir/pine                        ffynidwydden/pinwydden
Both fine. The second is a partial borrowing of Eng. 'pine'.

gorse                          eithin
heather                        grug
aspen(white poplar)      aethnen
yew                             ywen
aspen                          aethnen
spindle                         piswydden
honeysuckle                  gwyddfid

You can also say 'gwyddwydd' for the latter.

gooseberry                   eirin Mair
'The Virgin Mary's plums'!
beech                           ffawydden
Singulative again.

All best
mark
/|\

Posted: 28 Aug 2006, 16:38
by Dryadia2
Thank you so much for your response, Megli!
That really clears up my confusion! :o

Peace and Blessings,
:dryadia: /|\

Posted: 28 Aug 2006, 23:13
by ~*Blackbird*~
Awesomely done Megli!Was going to reply when I had some spare time but you've done the job perfectly :)

I'm making my rites more Welsh so this has given me a few ideas :D

So,thankyou both!

Sam

Posted: 16 Sep 2006, 18:59
by Dryadia2
In my endevour to expand my 'learn to find things on my own' research, I have found this handy translator:
http://www.geiriadur.net/
It translates both ways: Welsh/English and English/Welsh
Nifty, eh? :o

:dryadia: /|\

Posted: 16 Sep 2006, 19:09
by Megli
it's very useful when emailing i always find!

Re: Welsh names of Ogham Trees?

Posted: 29 Feb 2008, 05:53
by tannos
erm...don't mean to piss on people's bonfire, which Im not doing really, but as a welsh translator I do love geiriadur.net, but not everything is in there and I find Geiriadur y Prifysgol a lot better...and for translating into WElsh (which I only do for me) I use my academy dictionary

Re: Welsh names of Ogham Trees?

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 16:17
by WilliamTaliesin
Dear Tannos,
Do you know what the bird names are, like the wren?
Best W.T.

Re: Welsh names of Ogham Trees?

Posted: 15 Jul 2018, 16:47
by Tracy G
I’m not sure if tannos is still checking in at the forums, and since I happen to know the answer to this one…

Several Celtic names for the wren are currently in the “Wren Day” article on Wikipedia. Specifically in Welsh, the word for wren is dryw.