dydh da

Subforum for Cornish language studies and posts.
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dydh da

Postby wyeuro » 23 Aug 2006, 08:31

dydh da,  pub den oll,

my re beu pur vysi dres an vis eus passyes.  dell hevel, res yw dhymm oberi moy gales hag yma powes dhymm.  :) yma lies tra dhe wul wosa y asa termyn mar hyr erbynn y hwrav kavoes termyn a bowes.

good day, everyone,
i have been very busy during the past month. it seems i have to work harder when i get time off. there's a lot to do after leaving it for so long until i get time off.

cornish is hard or easy depending on how far you want to take it.  you can easily learn to use it in simple sentences that anyone would understand just by learning two verbs, and as many nouns, adjectives etc as you feel up to.  the secret is you only learn the infinitives of all the other verbs, until you feel ready to move on.

the first verb to learn is of course to be - bos - and the second is to make or do - gul.  that's the one you use with infinitves to say just about anything.  of course you have to learn all the forms of bos and gul, but they're relatively easy to learn.

there are two ways of using them too, and one is more difficult than the other but if you learn the easy way first, you'll soon be ready for the harder one.  

anyone want to know more?  simple lessons to start you off - given that i'm only two years into the course.

i'm on a high right now - i just got my results for the tressa gradh / third grade exam back - gans bri (with distinction)!   |-) :D


wyverne /|\

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Postby Beith » 23 Aug 2006, 17:53

Hi Vyvyan,

Firstly - congratulations on your exam results (maith an chailín!) well done.

Secondly, yes indeed if you can share some basic Cornish that would be really interesting. I have no experience of it at all so it would be nice to see some verbal forms and how to use them.
Can you for example give me the verb "to be" in forms of the conseutudinal present (I "be"  - habitually doing this) and the substantive ("I am" -as in "I am Beith, you are Wyeuro" etc)? That would be a good starting place!

Thanks also to you and AndyN for the recommendations and discussion on the Learning Cornish thread re: types of language course. That online one looks extremely good value for money! Now, if only I had the time....! (is there a lot of work involved ie. are the lessons large, requiring a lot of hours, or doable in small chunks?)

Best wishes

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Postby shirley mclaren » 24 Aug 2006, 10:50

My husband is pure Cornish and doesn't speak or understand a word of it!



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Postby Unikorn » 24 Aug 2006, 22:16

Hehe my husband is Cornish too and does speak it - but his 'book' learning is limited.  It's fascinating the difference between speaking a langauge from your childhood and trying to write it out gramatically
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1st steps

Postby wyeuro » 25 Aug 2006, 05:02

thanks beith. what a lovely word 'conseutudinal' is! i had to look it up. conseutudinal is the present continuous, is it?   i'm learning so many new words, right now.  

the verb to be in cornish has two forms in the present tense, but not a conseutudinal form.  

the simplest is the short one.  

benyn ov vy      =     i am a woman.
attes osta             =     you (s) are comfortable.
lowen yw hi          =     she is happy
sowsnek yw ev     =    he is english

kernewek on ni     =    we are cornish
trist owgh hwi        =    you (pl) are sad
studhyoryon yns i  =  they are students.

as you can see the word order here is noun, verb pronoun. osta is one word, but os is the verb and ta is the form the pronoun takes when it joins to the verb.

these can be turned into questions by putting the noun last.

ov vy koth?            =  am i old?
osta yowynk?         =  are you young?
yw ev dyskador?     = is he a teacher?
yw hi skrifennyades = is she a secretary?

on ni kerens            =   are we friends
owgh hwi parys        =  are you ready?
yns i nowydh           =  are they new?

with nouns as the subject:
Yowann yw kernow     =   John is a Cornishman
Tamsin yw teg            =  Tamsin is beautiful
an mebyon yns serrys =  the boys are angry
an fleghes yns gwariek = the children are playful

note that you can't use this form to say where soething or someone is or what they are doing.  you need the long form for that.

as for the accent, the brief lessons here will give you a good idea.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/cornwall/connected ... age1.shtml  if you've heard cornish people speaking english, still better.

briefly the empasis is usually on the first syllable of two syllable words and the second of three syllable words i.e. the second to last syllable of longer words.  
double n is pronounced as if the first n wer a d, and forms in effect two syllables,  so yowann is pronounced as if spelt yuhWOD'n.  
the r is rich and slightly purled.
i is like ee, and y is like schwa or more towards e.  
e is like the french e.
gh is very soft, like the ch in loch.

otherwise, listen and learn whenever you get the chance.  

it would be wonderful if this start would get people interested enough to learn.  helping to to retrieve a language from the brink of extinction os one of the most exciting and moving things you can do.  

blessed be
wyverne /|\

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Postby Beith » 26 Aug 2006, 17:03

Hi Wyverne!

Thanks very much indeed for the detailed reply. Much appreciated. Also the pronunciation link.

Yes the Consuetudinal present is the habitual present. In Irish it would be the "bí" as opposed to the substantive "tá".
- to be used whenever something is done habitually. In fact the hiberno-english that many folks speak over here captures it beautifully in translation as "I do be " ...eg. "I do be going to the shops every day". I know it's now what would be classified as "Stage Irish" but there you go! it's a good example of literal translation of Irish idiom and grammar into English.

Couple of quick questions:

-is the "h" in "hi" (she) pronounced in all cirumstances or only between vowels?
-how do you say something in the present habitual (consuetudinal) tense? eg. like my example above - I go to the shops every day (which is dervied from the "I do be going..." in idiomatic phrasing.

Best wishes and thanks! (actually you can tell me how to say "thanks" in Cornish too)

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i do be

Postby wyeuro » 27 Aug 2006, 04:58

dydh da, beith,
'meur ras' is thankyou. and yes, the h is always pronounced in hi as far as i know, though the h of the possessive form of it, hy, is sometimes absorbed, e.g., always after 'ha' = 'and', and after 'dhe' = 'to', so that 'and her sister' = 'ha'y hwoer', and 'to her skol' is 'ha'y skol'.  some nouns mutate variously after the possessives.  hwoer and skol don't.

there isn't really a conseutudinal, but i know what you're after - the verb gul = to do, or to make.  just as in english, you use 'do' along with the verb-noun.  

it's a good idea for a second lesson, because it opens up such a lot of the language to you - you can say such a lot with it.

in the present tense (active indicative of course  :)) gul has two forms, one very easy and one more difficult.  the easy one is very frequently used:

my a wra    =  i do/make
ty a wra      =  you (s) do
ev a wra     =  he does
hi a wra      =  she does

ni a wra      =  we do
hwi a wra    = you (pl) do
i a wra        = they do

the pronoun forms are the normal pronouns forms.  notice how they differ from the forms used with the verb to be.  'vy' is a 2nd state mutation of 'my'.  'ta' is a variant of 'ty' used in inversions.
a is an untranslatable particle

the 'a wra' there means i make or i do.  the infinitive of any verb can be used as a verb-noun following wra.

my a wra mos          = i go, i do go, i am going, i am in the habit of going.
ty a wra konvedhes  = you understand
ev a wra kewsel       = he does speak (-ew-  pron. as in eng. 'dew')
hi a wra redya         = she reads

ni a wra kerdhes      = we (do) walk
hwi a wra poenya     = you (do) run
i a wra prederi         = they (do) think

it becomes past tense by replacing wra with wrug.  

my a wrug pareusi    = i prepared

and imperfect with wre
ty a wre mires      = you used to look at / watch

the interrogative will come later - it's a bit more complex.  

here are some more infinitives for you, to give you more scope.

dos              = come
gelwel          = call
goslowes      = listen
klywes         = hear
kares           = like, love
krysi            = believe
gweles         = see  
dyski           = learn
write            = skrif
triga            = live/dwell    
bywa           = live/survive

and oh, beith, that 'stage irish'!! i want to ask you some questions about that.  i'll see you on the irish side  :-)

dyw genewgh (goodbye)

wyverne /|\

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Postby Beith » 28 Aug 2006, 17:47

HI - just a note to say thanks very much for all the above. Will go back to it when more time allows.
Much appreciated. (answered your stage Irish question in the other page...have a look at the threads below yours, where I posted links to bluffer;s guide and hiberno-english dictionary...will help also!)

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