The passing of our group

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Heddwen
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Re: The passing of our group

Postby Heddwen » 30 Dec 2010, 22:12

Leadership should be something that concerns itself with the betterment of the group and not with just themselves. "Self-less Leadership" can be a rare thing indeed but they tend to be the most respected among all others. Unfortunately this is a rare thing I think.

Which brings me on to my next point, yes I agree with your statement here wolf 560. In an ideal world this would be so. IMHO most of our personal work is examining the 'self', obviously within our OBOD teachings on these issues . I can't go into detail here but you will know what I mean if you have undertaken the course. OBOD has a clear anti hierarchy stand. Yes there are organisers for events, admin duties etc but this is different to the role of leader, teacher, healer etc. Each title comes with great responsibility and self examination is necessary. Good intentions often escalate into ego feeders. The best leaders IMHO lead quietly, intelligently and respectfully. This is not to say that you were not one of the latter, these are just a few of my observations.
I have been a member of a very large worldwide Pagan outfit ( more than 300) I trained and worked the wheel of the year with them. I noticed that for a non hierarchical organisation with good intentions, things had become materialistic, profit making, controlling, nepotistic, hierarchical and very cult like. There was a high drop out rate and all sorts of shenhanigans were going on amongst the top notch there. The tutors were often condescending and bullying...I could write a (not for profit!) book. The crowning glory was the invention of a Goddess,a creation myth which was sold to any naive person. I checked with Isaac Bonewits cult recognition formula. It ticked most of the boxes.Nuff said.So why did I stay for the year? I met some great people, I did learn a lot in spite of everything but not because of everything. Some of the teachings were good, after all not everything is good or bad and I dedicated to the Goddess in a way that I would not have been able to in a small outfit. My relationship is in fact with Her.

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wolf560
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Re: The passing of our group

Postby wolf560 » 31 Dec 2010, 03:05

... this worked well until the founder member became egocentric and controlling, interfering with our interactions socially this eventually led to harrassment and threats... Good intentions often escalate into ego feeders. The best leaders IMHO lead quietly, intelligently and respectfully.
Too right Heddwen...!!!
It sounds like you have run into the same thing with the same types of people.

My greatest mistake was actually the fact that I chose NOT to become the leader.
They all insisted that since I had organized it, laid the foundations, and wrote up a majority of the by-laws that I was by definition the leader.

I told them "Druids do not LEAD, we advise". I said I would only consider becoming a leader of the other Druids and only if they asked me (which they did). I told them that I would not become another Cathbad...

Maybe I should have taken the position offered....
...then again, alls well that ends......well...... (LOL)
.
The Druids wrote nothing down, and memorized everything...
/|\ Mark /|\

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2011 BS
Speakers Corner (Sep 2011) A lesson in the Ogham
Divination method; The Awen Stones

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Heddwen
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Re: The passing of our group

Postby Heddwen » 31 Dec 2010, 14:41

You don't seem like a Cathbad at all! I think we can put all these things down to experience, focusing on the joyful good times that we had. These groups tend to move in circles, you never know when you will come across an old friend again and who knows before long there is another coven in the making on the horizon.

I found an excellent book on the subject called, 'Covencraft-Witchcraft for three or more' by Amber K. It's a large tome and has some very useful chapters in it like group dynamics, conflict resolution, communication, cooperation and pastoral counselling. As an aside there is also a section on the US army forces Chaplain's Handbook on Wicca, which you probably are already aware of.I thought it was all very interesting and it has helped me deal with certain personality types over the years.

It would appear that these types of people seem attracted to paganism, maybe it's the lack of dogma and hierarchy that allows them to spout off like some poobah ascended master from the planet Zog. It normally doesn't bother me but I find things can become tiresome if you are in an enclosed situation, for example, my first Reiki attunment was dominated by a couple of Gardnerians who name dropped and bragged all the way through it, desperate to impress the master. I am very pleased that this board allows for healthy debate and inter religious dialogue I've found that those who Basil Fawlty describes as 'stating the bleeding obvious' tend not to hang around. We were actually taught how to light a candle once...no prizes for guessing where I fancied sticking it!!!!

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wolf560
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Re: The passing of our group

Postby wolf560 » 31 Dec 2010, 17:21

...These groups tend to move in circles, you never know when you will come across an old friend again... It would appear that these types of people seem attracted to paganism... allowing them to spout off like some poobah ascended master from the planet Zog.
!!!... I could not agree MORE Heddwen ...!!!

My wife and I stayed away from Paganry for almost five years, and have only in the past several months gotten back into public gatherings.

What I found most amusing then and now is watching the "Grand Poobah Ascended Masters" all trying to edge towards all the newbies spouting all manner of nonsense. Everything from "Zombies in Atlantis" to "Zoroastrianism in Austria" came up, all in an attempt to have as many of the awestruck newbies gather around them for even one more minute.

What I always enjoyed was actually keeping my mouth shut and listening in as the "experts", the "everyday Pagans", and the "first timers" began discussing "how to" or perhaps even just "Why was it done?"

I guess I just love watching people learn from each other....
.
The Druids wrote nothing down, and memorized everything...
/|\ Mark /|\

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2011 BS
Speakers Corner (Sep 2011) A lesson in the Ogham
Divination method; The Awen Stones

Guild Chief; ADF Scholars Guild, Scribe GotRP ADF, Bandarach Council member, NOD Council member


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Heddwen
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Re: The passing of our group

Postby Heddwen » 02 Jan 2011, 13:02

ah yes the jolly old Gilderoy Lockhart routine :grin:

There's an interesting thread initiated by Selene in the Ovate forum on a similar theme. I think having a sense of humour about the whole thing is healthy, what else can you do when you are being taught by Professor Umbridge and Cassanova? The latter has now been sacked/'retired' for his predatory behaviour (especially aimed at the vulnerable) It was a total misuse of their 'power' i.e. their position as teachers.

I'm glad that things are going better for you now.

:warm:


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