Calling for a guide to Welsh pronunciation

Beith · Post by **Beith** » 28 Mar 2005, 16:27

Hi folks,

I know that OBOD offers help in a guide to pronunciation of celtic languages. I think it would be useful if someone - OBOD or not - could provide such a guide in this forum. Please look at the one I posted ages ago above *guide to pronunciation of Irish mythic names and placenames*. It didn't take me too long to do that and I wonder if someone could offer something similar in Welsh?

This would greatly help those of us who would like to read the Welsh myth sagas but are somewhat hindered by lack of understanding of the name pronunciations.

Any takers?

And of course if anyone has Breton, Manx or Scots gaelic, that too would be greatly appreciated!

kind regards,
Beith

lee · Post by **lee** » 16 Apr 2005, 23:06

hi bith - ive seen this thread about for a while and i suppose i could have a go if you want. it wont be done quick as i have mountains of work for uni to prepare. i will give it a whirl and do a story from the mabinogion at a time

Post by **Art** » 24 Apr 2005, 12:25

Lee,

Methinks if you would take that on it would be a boon to many. I'd suggest starting with a post relating to the basics (dd=th, f=v;etc. kind of thing) and then roll into pronouncing names and places.

Thanks for the offer!

Art

astrocelt · Post by **astrocelt** » 25 Apr 2005, 01:25

Geiriadur ysgol – scholar’s dictionary; alphabetical pronunciation guide

A (i) short as in cat
(ii) and as in farther
B same as the English b
C same as the Eng. k
CH as in the Dutch nacht
D same as the Eng. d
DD the th as in thou
E (i) short e as in hen
(ii) long as in pale
F as in v for van
FF as in f for fan
G as in g for get
NG as in ng for long
H as in h for hand
I (i) short as in pin
(ii) long as in machine
L same as the English L
LL
M as the English m
N as the English n except before the c (nc) when it’s pronounced ng
O (i) short as o in pot
(ii) long as in bone
P as the English p
PH same as ph in physic
R as r in rough
RH
S as s in sin but when followed by an i (si) becomes sh as in shall
T as in t for to
TH as th in thin
U (i) short u as in busy
(ii) long e as in me
W (i) short as in oo in good
(ii) long as in oo in boon
Y (i) short as in u in fun
(ii) long as in ee in see

CH, LL and RH has no sounds which are represented in English

lee · Post by **lee** » 05 May 2005, 00:28

ok... i still do want to do this for the users on the site. however, im literally snowed under with university work and impending exams.

if someone else would like to do this instead im more than happy for them to do it and wont be offended.

on the other hand, after 3 june i will be free to produce what i *hope* will be a good guide, i can work with basics, do a proper names and a place names guide too, i also thought id go through the folklore i have an post up pronunciation guide for characters and stuff from some of the more common folktales and fairy tales.

a comprehensive guide if you like... but i can only start it in a months time

how does that sound?

Tangwystyl · Post by **Tangwystyl** » 15 Sep 2005, 13:32

http://home.clara.net/wfha/wales/glossary/ You could try this site.
cheers

Gwilym Goch · Post by **Gwilym Goch** » 13 Nov 2005, 20:02

Helo,

Welsh is my first language. More than happy to answer any queries with regards to this. Just post up the name / word you're haveing problems with and I'll give you a comparative english brake down like the following (underlined syllables are the accents):

Bendigeidfran = bendy-gayd-vran

the 'a' in 'vran' is the same as in 'he ran away'

rigoose · Post by **rigoose** » 06 Dec 2005, 18:27

Is there anywhere on the internet with audio clips?
I've tried so many times with books explaining the pronunciation, but when you try to repeat it to a Welsh speaker, you find you are miles out!

Gwilym Goch · Post by **Gwilym Goch** » 06 Dec 2005, 20:06

Not that I know of. It's not a bad idea though . . . .

Lora · Post by **Lora** » 06 Dec 2005, 20:37

Is there anywhere on the internet with audio clips?

There you go... http://www.bbc.co.uk/wales/learnwelsh/ Loads of stuff on there. I can't vouch for the accents as I'm not Welsh nor do I live in Wales, but it's free!

Lorraine

rigoose · Post by **rigoose** » 06 Dec 2005, 23:38

cheers,
I'll try that!

salmoncat · Post by **salmoncat** » 07 Dec 2005, 02:57

Gwilym Goch wrote:More than happy to answer any queries with regards to this.

brionnfhionn
only one i know for now anyway

thank you
sc
ps how do you say thank you properly

Gwilym Goch · Post by **Gwilym Goch** » 07 Dec 2005, 14:31

salmoncat wrote: brionnfhionn

do you wan't me to suggest a pronounciation? it doesn't look much like Welsh to me I'm afraid. It could be Irish. Is it Bryn Ffion (Rose Hill)? Where did you find it?

salmoncat wrote: ps how do you say thank you properly

Diolch = dee-olch

the accent is on the first sylable,
'o' as in 'song',
and 'ch' as in the German 'nacht', it's a rasping sound, as if you were trying to bring up some phlegm (nice!), not as in 'much'.

Or just have a look at the above site listed which looks really good!

salmoncat · Post by **salmoncat** » 11 Dec 2005, 19:42

Gwilym Goch wrote
doesn't look much like Welsh to me I'm afraid. It could be Irish. Is it Bryn Ffion (Rose Hill)? Where did you find it?
i googled celtic fetch and looked up salmon. what is salmon in welsh cuz brionnfhionn i guess is celtic (different from welsch?)

sami

Gwilym Goch · Post by **Gwilym Goch** » 11 Dec 2005, 23:49

Hi Salmoncat,

Salmon in Welsh is spelt 'eog' and is pronounced 'e-og', the accent being on the 'e'.

The 'e' is pronounced like the name of the letter 'a' in English, which phonetically sounds more like ey, I suppose. We just want the e (first whole sound) from the ey. Stick that in front of a greater spotted 'og', pronounced as it reads, and there you have it - 'eog'. Hope that's not too convoluted. There's a BBC web site listed above which might have an audio recording of the word.

Celtic isn't a language of its own anymore. But as a term it's sometimes used to describe the historic grouping of the 'Celtic' languages, a branch of the greater Indo-Eurpoean family. For example - Welsh (Cymraeg) and her cousins Cornish and Bretton are considered P Celtic languages, and Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic and Manx Gaelic are considered Q Celtic languages. The received oppinion is that at one time there was a purely 'Celtic' language, which divided into the above - but that was a long, long time ago, before the Celts (whoever they were) arrived in the British Isles.

Hope this helps.

Gwilym Goch · Post by **Gwilym Goch** » 11 Dec 2005, 23:55

Hi Salmoncat,

Salmon in Welsh is spelt 'eog' and is pronounced 'e-og', the accent being on the 'e'.

The 'e' is pronounced like the name of the letter 'a' in English, which phonetically sounds more like ey, I suppose. We just want the e (first whole sound) from the ey. Stick that in front of a greater spotted 'og', pronounced as it reads, and there you have it - 'eog'. Hope that's not too convoluted. There's a BBC web site listed above which might have an audio recording of the word.

[incidentally- the ending -og usually denotes swiftness or movement as in 'draenog' = 'moving thorn', Welsh for hedgehog; or 'diog' = 'un-swift', Welsh for lazy]

Celtic isn't a language of its own anymore. But as a term it's sometimes used to describe the historic grouping of the 'Celtic' languages, a branch of the greater Indo-Eurpoean family. For example - Welsh (Cymraeg) and her cousins Cornish and Bretton are considered P Celtic languages, and Irish Gaelic, Scottish Gaelic and Manx Gaelic are considered Q Celtic languages. The received oppinion is that at one time there was a purely 'Celtic' language, which divided into the above - but that was a long, long time ago, before the Celts (whoever they were) arrived in the British Isles.

Hope this helps.

salmoncat · Post by **salmoncat** » 12 Dec 2005, 04:22

thank you

salmoncat · Post by **salmoncat** » 12 Dec 2005, 04:23

thank you

Gwilym Goch · Post by **Gwilym Goch** » 12 Dec 2005, 17:22

Howdy Salmoncat,

Glad to be of service. Could you tell me where you got that 4th century Welsh quote from on the bottom of your reply?

salmoncat · Post by **salmoncat** » 17 Dec 2005, 05:36

from some study material