They eat moonbeams but must also have a block of pixie dust to lick as it helps maintain their mineral balance. The cake was for KateAphritha wrote:Is the cake for the unicorns? I've always wondered what they ate...Corwen wrote:I'd love to talk more, but I have a garden to water, a cake to bake, and the unicorns won't feed themselves.
These are your choice of words, not anyone else's.feranaja wrote: or are we all deluded and self-important frauds?
) Hi Katie, I agree with this analysis, and like you I don't use a "system" to anticipate events, but I think that the magical and flexible nature of the divination process has got rather lost in your last message. As I'm sure you're well aware the dowsing of the situation (as I characterise it) and the extrapolation of it are a spiritual, hypnotic and heartfelt process, and not only useful for exploring the possible future but understanding the present as well. It attracts all sorts of fakery, ego trippers and dorks I know, but I'm not sure that's a reason to tar all those who celebrate one of life's great gifts with the same brush. It's their risk to take, surely?katie bridgewater wrote:In Explorer's original reply (which was marvellous) he makes the point that divinatory practice is commonly misunderstood as predicting the future as opposed to understanding the present.
None of that makes any sense in my worldview at all,katie. I don't fear that I'm deluded, although for many years I tested myself rigorously - I'm in a place of comfort about my gifts. And still - always - working on my weaker areas. I'm not really "concerned to present" myself any way, I'm simply what I am - and seer is part of it.see now why you are so concerned to present the role of what you call 'seer' in the light you do, as the opposite of what I think. Does the idea that it might not be any great shakes make you worry that you are a fraud or deluded?
First, with all due respect, I neither need nor asked for your sanction or judgement on what I call msyelf.I don't think you are a fraud (unless you are charging money for your services above the cost of your expenses) or deluded (any more than I think having a voluntary drug-induced hallucination is deluded), I just think you are attached to the need for calling what you do 'clairvoyance' when there are other less (or at least differently) culturally loaded ways of describing it.
you can call yourself ordinary all you want;I see people as all special and unique, as I've said before, myself included. I make my living as a herbalist and nutritionist and rarely do readings anymore, not that I owe you any kind of an explanation.I believe a significant number of other humans, enough for it to be as common-as-muck have similar abilities to you, but don't necessarily use the same language, and so don't buy into all the trappings of the 'clairvoyant' label. They live their lives without being afraid of being perceived as frauds or deluded, because they don't advertise their services and they are happy to be ordinary.
I'm happy for you. I use the tarot 90% of the time for reasons other than divination; you on the other hand, must be very special that you don't need any such oracle.I am happy that any such gift might be all in my own head, and I am happy to be asked 'what makes me so important' with a wink and a smile by my wise friend Hilary and I don't really care if other people think I am spiritual or not. I don't consult oracular systems very often (like tarot) because I am happy that I can read most situations well enough myself.
That quite commonly occurs with beginners, but I am long past that phase. Then again, you could hardly be expected to know anything about me, as instead of spending time getting to know me, you've gone straight onto the attack. Perhaps a little more self reflection in YOUR case is in order?What you call 'developing' your gift equally could be seen as placing disproportionate emphasis on it.
But, I think it IS mysterious and amazing - am I not allowed to think that? Should you decide for me how I view these unusual (or any) abilities?
There is nothing wrong with developing insight and wisdom,and no one here says it isn't, just that some people here don't think it is particularly helpful to try and 'know' the future in any concrete way, and that trying to won't work, because of the nature of time, which is well-studied in the scientific community. All people are capable of developing these kind of skills, just not everyone chooses to use oft-misappropriated terms like 'seer' or 'shaman'. I prefer to think of such abilities as something inherent in everyone, natural, not super-natural, and to use down to earth language and reality-checks (like making sure I am abreast of the real science of consciousness), rather than special language to try and make it sound like it's somehow mysterious, and really amazing.
and start again? I think language, and how it is used is very important, and I am very interested in how it is formed and used. I spent many many years learning about language and perhaps that isn't immediately apparent, since it isn't something that would be easy to find out about me. I am not the least bit offended by you, your language, or your world view. I like the lively debate and challenging nature of the DHP forum and have very much enjoyed discussions here over the years. There are many sharp thinkers in OBOD, and widely varying opinions. This thread is particularly interesting because it throws up the real issue of whether the future is fixed and knowable and/or changeable. A very real linguistic minefield which I am picking my way though, like everyone else. And like everyone else here, I am not perfect.you exhibit to my mind, a sharklike need to jump all over people whose language or worldview offends you, as mine clearly does.
I find assumptions, condescension and psychological labeling all very offensive, no matter who they come from. If DJ Drood doesn't treat me in such a way, we'll get along fine.Personally, I love this forum - it's been the one place where it has been possible to meet and learn from folks around the world and feel comfortable doing so. I have had the pleasure of meeting lots of members from here over the years at various OBOD events and no-one has ever called me hostile! We even invited people from here I had never met to our wedding! I've seen much more heated debates here than this one - really, I have, and if I have ever been accused of anything here, it is usually of being too fluffy and idealistic, usually by DJ Drood, who I suggest you don't engage in conversation, if you find me difficult! Ain't that right DJ
I do agree that any further back and forth with regard to this conflict, should be kept to PM.
If you want to know how un-hostile I really am, I suggest you PM me your address and I will send you something that might give you a better insight into who I am than a random discussion on a forum. You can't say fairer than that. And if you like, I'll happily let you do a reading for me. Of course, you are free to not give me that opportunity, and leave this discussion with completely the wrong impression of me.
Quite.katie bridgewater wrote:I've seen much more heated debates here than this one - really, I have, and if I have ever been accused of anything here, it is usually of being too fluffy and idealistic, usually by DJ Drood, who I suggest you don't engage in conversation, if you find me difficult! Ain't that right DJ
(btw, I don't really think you are too fluffy and idealistic....I used to like to "debate" more than I do now...I've mellowed..or perhaps grown phlegmatic.)No worries.feranaja wrote:I find assumptions, condescension and psychological labeling all very offensive, no matter who they come from. If DJ Drood doesn't treat me in such a way, we'll get along fine.
And please keep doing what you do Katie! We need more sharp minds and less self proclaimed prophets.katie bridgewater wrote:All too often people latch on to buzz words and linguistic fashions without thinking about the meaning, origin and undertones they carry, and one of my 'gifts' (I hesitate to call it so myself, but I am attempting to be understood here), which I have developed (or is that over emphasised, you choose) is to examine how people use words, and sometimes to challenge them.
I'm so very shocked that people have taken my words as pompous and self-aggrandizing. I will look over what I have written to try and see it. I started struggling with the same glimpses of vision the OP mentioned, at an early age; went through years of thinking myself mentally ill, all kinds of therapy,much soul-searching - and eventually took training to help understand and work with, instead of fighting it. I did NOT intend to declare myself a prophet, a "wise and gifted seer' - simply someone who has studied and practised various magical arts for many years and has some skill with tarot, and bouts of dreaming that foretells events to come. I thought the term for those skills was "seer" - and I tend to think all this grandiosity people are ascribing to me is read in, because it surely does not come from my view of myself. I am very proud of the work I do and the commitment I bring to it; at the same time, I am a lifelong student, and always eager to learn from others.But when I would only remotely display a grand attitude of proclaiming myself a wise seer, gifted healer and humble teacher, then he would wrestle me into the mud for some painful lessons in humility. And for good reason also. (Feranaja, there is perhaps some advice for you in here).
I agree. Don't stay away too long!feranaja wrote:I am however, pretty sure I've been badly misread, if people feel a "lesson in humility" is called for by me.
Sciethe wrote:...the dowsing of the situation (as I characterise it) and the extrapolation of it are a spiritual, hypnotic and heartfelt process, and not only useful for exploring the possible future but understanding the present as well. Skatie bridgewater wrote:In Explorer's original reply (which was marvellous) he makes the point that divinatory practice is commonly misunderstood as predicting the future as opposed to understanding the present.
This kind of sums it up for me- a rationalist and yet often a romantic daydreamer. It's not an overtly rational process, and there are a great many things which can be done to order the thoughts in a meditative non-rational way. Tarot. Watching the meniscus of a bowl. Closing the eyes. Listening to the speech of birds. Divination can be understood rationally in this kind by thinking theta waves in the brain or somesuch, but the process is still mysterious, and magical too because of the essential feeling, animal element. I don't see why allowing the feeling self to tell us things can't be called magic. Maybe that's what all magic ultimately relies on.DJ Droood wrote:Is it possible that in some cases, visions or premonitions are a manifestation of insight and experience?
I'm a seer
Thank you for saying this, I was going to mention the name of the forum but I really don't want to prolong any arguing. I suppose I thought it was a given, that seership was ok to discuss here.Hello, everybody.
In feranaja's first post in this thread, she began by saying
This statement has drawn a good amount of skepticism from some other posters.I'm a seer
But when I look up at the area of the forum that this post by Nachtfalke is in, I notice that it is called Arts of the Seer.
To me, the title of this particular forum presupposes that discussion here will, in general, be sympathetic to a belief in seership.
Because of that, I can't help thinking that the skepticism here is misplaced.
FWIW I did send some ideas in PM, hopefully helpful.Nachtfalke hasn't been able to find the answers she was looking for because this discussion, which is entirely appropriate for this forum, has had the rug pulled out from underneath it.